Wenlin

[sfr@rcn.com]

Konglong--I am interested. As time permits, I would be happy to contribute to a topic that expands the Wenlin database.

And Beirne--PlecoDict is almost enough to make me switch back to a Palm--but not quite. I'm holding my breath and waiting until the PPC version comes out.

In the meantime, I find the Ectaco Chinese dictionaries for pocket pc and palm extremely useful. (They also have them for the desktop.) Offers several different ways to input Chinese, including radicals and handwriting recognition, and I rarely stump it. Also, on my PDAs, their products have always been very stable. And they're not exorbitantly priced--about $30, I think. www.ectaco.com

Also, the Declan series of Chinese apps for Windows and for PDAs are very nicely designed, stable and very useful. I have all of his desktop apps (dictionary, flashcards, read-write Chinese drills) and as well as the PPC version of Read-Write Chinese. I can't wait until he ports the Chinese flaschcards to the Pocket PC. http://www.declan-software.com/chinese/.

Sandra

[Konglong]

For right now, I am using mdict. It is a free PocketPC software. It kind of looks like 金山詞霸. On the download page you can find tools to build and convert your own dictionaries. You can choose between showing Traditional or Simplified Chinese. Lookup is either by English or Chinese.

Kong

[sfr@rcn.com]

Konglong--thanks. The files are downloading as I write this. However, my Axim is in the shop, getting a memory upgrade, so I won't be able to try it immediately.

Sandra

[Altair]

I just wanted to write a little to support Wenlin. I cannot say whether it is better or worse than similar software I have read about, but I do feel qualified to compare it with the equivalent in books.

I initially stayed away from Wenlin for a year or so, because of the price. I also wondered how much use I would get out of software, since the vast amount of my regular material was in book form. I generally do not enjoy reading online. Lastly, the utility of Wenlin seemed to depend on being able to copy and paste material into the software, and I was skeptical about finding interesting digital material.

After I began participating on this forum I became frustrated with my inability to produce characters fluently and decided to take the plunge and have been very, very pleased with the result.

I think I am at an intermediate level. With the help of a dictionary, I can laboriously make my way through the equivalent of an average newspaper article, but the process is slow and painful. Wenlin makes this almost easy. I now find I can read most material for the substance.

Features of Wenlin that I have found particular useful are the following.

1. As you simply move the cursor over a character, partial definitions appear at the bottom. This can help avoid interrupting the flow of reading.

2. If you click on the character, you get extensive definitions and often sample usage. There are hyperlinks within the software to all the words that contain or start with the character.

3. The software is smart enough to pick out not only characters, but also Chinese words. Knowing instantly that a character forms part of a word can save a huge amount of time. Even many 成语 chengyu and famous proper nouns are included.

4. Extensive etymologies are provided for each character, which can help in memorizing them.

5. One can either use Pinyin to type characters or the cursor to draw them, and the conversion can be done word by word, rather than character by character.

6. There are a modest amount of Chinese text files, mostly beginner texts or famous classical texts, that one can immediately use for practice reading.

7. The software seems to proceed equally well from Chinese to English and from English to Chinese.

8. The order and direction of strokes is provided even for some of the more complicated characters, such as 鹽.

[roddy]

I've done some fairly heavy editing on this topic, due to the new Terms and Conditions (which are still under discussion, if you want to comment).

This means the discussion may be a little disjointed in places.

Roddy

[sunyata]

Ok, saw the new terms and conditions ;) Thanks for editing out my post...

There is better stuff out there....

Care to enlighten us?

Sure...one that I like is called "Key Software" and "KeyTip" - they have a demo at www.cjkware.com The interface is not that great, but the dictionary they use is better than Wenlin's IMO. These programs are not quite like Wenlin, but their functions are more useful to me than Wenlin's. Perhaps, Wenlin may be of more use for beginners, while Key is not...

Also, Powerword 2005 is quite good - the vast number of dicitonaries included surpasses Wenlin's dictionary by far.

I am not saying Wenlin is useless or a bad piece of software. It simply has many useful functions that I never use

[sfr@rcn.com]

It sounds like your primary purpose is to look up unusual (to you) words and that you already have an extensive vocabulary, so you need an unabridged dictionary. If that's the case, PowerWord probably is much better for you. I found it clumsy to use and I hated having it reside in my system tray, sucking up resources (albeit small resources) and conflicting with the occasional app.

Wenlin is definitely easier for students (or at least this student) to use. It's dictionary gives me definitions not only for words but phrases and expressions. But I don't think it's aimed at beginners. I have used Wenlin for several years and find it's even more helpful to me now (as an intermediate-level student) than it was when I used it for its flash cards and other learning tools.

I'm going to try the Key tools today. Thanks for the tip.

Sandra

[sunyata]

Yeah, no problem... Unfortunately, it's expensive as well... and not quite so light on the resources either...

I would use Wenlin for flashcards, but I simply can't force myself to stare at the computer to learn characters and new phrases - I prefer to see it on paper

[sfr@rcn.com]

A Chinese friend once told me that I'll never be able to write Chinese characters if I study them only online or on a computer. He said you have to learn them through muscle memory as much as brain power. And he's right. I can learn to read, built vocabulary, and those sorts of skills on a computer (online or off), but if I haven't written a character out at least fifty times in a row, I don't retain the memory of HOW to write it.

But the Wenlin, Declan and Gakusoft (for Palm and Pocket PC) flashcards are useful for building vocabulary and recognition skills.

Everything helps a little.

Sandra

[Konglong]

New Wenlin 3.2.2 Update

[beirne]

A Chinese friend once told me that I'll never be able to write Chinese characters if I study them only online or on a computer. He said you have to learn them through muscle memory as much as brain power. And he's right. I can learn to read, built vocabulary, and those sorts of skills on a computer (online or off), but if I haven't written a character out at least fifty times in a row, I don't retain the memory of HOW to write it.

I agree with the muscle memory part but I like Wenlin. As a compromise I bought a Wacom writng tablet so I can use the handwriting recognition with a stylus when I do my flashcards.

[sfr@rcn.com]

Since I've been meaning to try this for more than a year, I think it's a wonderful idea. (Hubris, thou art mine.)

Does writing the characters on a tablet work for you? Do you think you learn as much as you would if you wrote everything with pen and ink on paper?

Sandra

[beirne]

It has worked pretty well for me in terms of learning the writing. Writing characters over and over doesn't reinforce it for me because my mind wanders off. I use Supermemo which intelligently sets the flashcard frequency and the arrangement has worked out pretty well.

The Wacom pad includes a mouse, but you might want to keep your old mouse around. The mouse action isn't as nice as a real one. I put up with it for regular things but go back to a real mouse when playing games. I have both mice plugged into my computer so I can just switch from one to the other.

BTW, I suspect the real way to learn to write Chinese well is to write real stuff. I'm fine at answering the flashcards but I freeze when I have to write real sentences on paper.

[chengdude]

Off-topic comment on moderation clipped to here. Roddy

Oh yes, more on topic, I bought Wenlin and I like it. As a rank beginner, I also bought the Chinese Character Flashcards 888 set, which orders the characters based on Wenlin's frequency-of-use number...saves a bit on the aforementioned eyestrain.