Most gay friendly cities in china

[Ari 桑]

While I have a general understanding of the places I have been in for extended periods of time- beijing, shanghai, and xi'an - I'd like to hear your guys opinions one which cities in china are the most gay friendly. That term in itself has various meanings. If you aren't familiar with gay life specifically, which cities do you feel are the most socially open and non-judgmental? This includes cities outside of the mainland.

Thanks for your help.

[cdn_in_bj]

I have observed that people here (at least in BJ) either accept it or act indifferent to it. Some people even find it "cute". I haven't seen any outright hate/discrimination expressed towards gays like in many western countries. Maybe part of the reason is because it is less visible here, so others do not yet feel threatened by it.

What I do find interesting is that it seems to be condemned by the authorities. Upon arrival in BJ, I remember seeing a warning on the electronic billboard prior to passing immigration about the dangers of AIDS/HIV and advising visitors to "refrain from unnatural sexual activities such as homosexuality..." (I don't remember the exact wording but it was something to that effect)

[ipsi()]

Whereas in New Zealand, there was once a T.V. advert which had a tagline of "No rubba-rubba, no hubba-hubba!", and either a dude and a girl, or two dudes.

I believe there were complaints about that one, ranging from "Gross! Us kids totally don't talk like that!" to "You're promoting homosexuality! Servant of the Devil!", but I think most of them were more about the way it was trying to promote contraception than the fact that it was promoting safe homosexual sex.

I've no idea what it's actually going to be like here in China, as I'm not gay, and no-one else I know here is, so I'm not really able to comment on the specifics. What I can say, however, is that no one here rants and raves about the dangers of gay-ness, despite a distinct lack of it. Not that that's a lot of help

[Jive Turkey]

It seems to me that "the authorities" will sometimes crack down on gay bars in most cities every now and then, but they generally don't run an active campaign against gays. Perhaps one reason for that is even the most "out" of Chinese gays still keep one foot in the closet. I think that that's sort of how government wants it.

As for average people, I think most don't give much a toss about gays. While some people may be a part of some sort of religion that frowns on homosexuality, I don't think there is the same sort of influence from religious fundamentalism on people's attitudes toward homosexuals as in North America. The one situation where you could bet on Chinese people reacting quite negatively toward an out homosexual is if it were their own son, and that would be for what they see as practical reasons rather than for dogmatic ones. I've known a few "semi-out" gays in Taiwan, HK and the mainland, and quite a few people who I just sort of assumed were in the closet. Not once have I known or even heard of a Chinese homosexual coming out to their parents.

[adrianlondon]

Quick intro : I live in London, spent 6 months living in beijing and am gay.

In London, everyone I know is accepting of my sexuality; close family especially. occasionally get people pointing or staring if I'm holding hands with my boyfriend walking around in London, but as there are so many gay people about in London, there's nothing much worse. Don't think I'd be so open in public if I lived in a small provincial town.

China seems very different. People on the street couldn't give a damn and don't stare, point or comment at all as far as I'm aware. The confucius thing of "you're not my family, so I don't care" thing, which also helps explain, slightly, why Chinese will push in and not often help out strangers. Anyway, I digress ... I met quite a few gay guys in Beijing and they all had similar issues. Were happy to go to gay bars and clubs (such little that exist) and let random people know they're gay, and even kiss other guys in public, sometimes, but in the main their families either didn't know or did but refused to discuss it.

It seems that as long as you get married and have a kid, you can be as gay as you like. Poor wife! Quite a few gay guys on the internet are married. And many gay guys I met either wanted to go abroad "to be gay" or were going to just get married and have children and "do the best they can".

So ... an odd situation, but predictable.

As for other cities ... Shanghai has more gay bars and clubs than Beijing, but then beijing isn't a bar/club kind of place anyway. People use the internet to meet up (straight or gay) more than cruising bars. Shanghai is the opposite.

Don't know about other places. Outside of big cities, most people only know their family members and random internet strangers anyway. So they usually get married to someone their parents introduced them to, unless they "escape" to Beijing or Shanghai.

All IMO, obviously. I'm no expert or researcher ;)

[Lu]

From what I heard from a friend who did research this: Chinese don't have anything against homosexuality in itself, as long as their own kid makes sure he/she gets married and has a child (very un-xiao to end the family line). Many Chinese gays may come out to their friends but not to their parents (I do know of a guy who did though, his parents can live with it but don't tell the neighbors, so he still gets questions like 'so when are you going to find a nice girl and get married?').

People in the street wouldn't care if two guys hold hands, also because there are plenty of straight people who hold hands with friends.

Don't know about cities... Beijing is ok, from what I heard, but beyond that I have no idea. Big cities would be better than small ones, obviously.

[skylee]

un-xiao

I like this term.

[Ari 桑]

Haha, yeah me too. Could you say 反孝？

Anyway, I had a boyfriend for most of the time I lived in beijing, and we were completely open about it wherever we went. We were never bothered, and often didn't even get wierd looks. Or if people did recognize it, the reaction was almost always positive. Many a time we were offered cigs by our cab drivers etc. This happened espeically often in the south. We spent some time in Lijiang together, and we had alot of people respond super well to us.

I also lived with a couple from haerbin, and was out to both of them, and also some of my friends parents, and all were super supportive as well. In fact, the mother decidedly told me that in her next life she wants to be a lesbian. Shes pretty much the most awsome lady ever.

So I'd say gay life in china isn't bad, espeically for a laowai. But the whole marrige thing is really the catch. Although I do know several gay people who are out with their parents and in all cases there hasn't been much of a problem. But most are too scared, including my boyfriend, who was basically all out except to his parents.

I'd like to know about the cities though. I'm interested in the southern cities like Guangzhou, Kunming, etc. Or Taiwan. I hear Taiwan tends to have the most active gay life in the chinese speaking world.

[adrianlondon]

Taiwan does have a great scene; my bf's from Taipei. Outside of Taipei, though, and you could well be in any small mainland city; ie there's no real bar scene for anyone.

[skylee]

Could you say 反孝？

It is 不孝.

[Ari 桑]

^ Psh, thats too easy.

Yeah, Taipei/bei sounds pretty fantastic. I hear its super hot and rainy though. Both of which I can deal with. Hmm, it seems so different from the mainland. For some reason, no matter where in the mainland I go, things have a kind of conectivity despite the differences. But Taiwan seems like a whole 'nother adventure altogether. Perhaps for the best. See, I'm moving back to the chinese speaking world next summer, and I've hot a year to plan, but I think I should nail down a spot to go to sometime soon. Perhaps Taiwan will be it.

[Lu]

Don't know much about the gay scene here... it seems to be more open than on the mainland, there is a gay parade and gay bars and all, but on the other hand I know of a gay guy whose parents are more traditional, and would be completely against it, so he felt very bad about being gay, and doesn't come out to his parents. I guess for foreigners it would be even better than BJ, no parents who would mind, and a real scene.

And one story I heard: guy goes to gay bar, and is surprised to run into his cousin there. 'Hey, what are youdoing here?' Didn't come out to their family, apparently.

The heat and rain are ok, by the way. Well, you don't want to spend too much time outside at noon now, and you do want to bring an umbrella most of the time, but it's really not that bad. As a bonus, the guys here are better-looking than those on the mainland :-)

[cdn_in_bj]

This reminds me of something that I've been meaning to ask...

I know that it's considered normal here for straight guys to have physical contact. You know, hand on shoulder, that kind of brotherhood thing. And in fact, I find myself doing it too now to my friends and even guys that I'm close to at work.

But I was wondering, have any of you guys here had a straight Chinese guy complement you on your looks or sense of humour? Or that he hopes to visit your home country one day and would make sure to find and "take care" of you while there? What do you guys think? Mind you, this exchange occurred over IM, in English, so maybe something got lost in the translation. If this were back home, I'd tell him I was sorry but I'm not his type. But I'm wondering if he was trying to say something else and that I totally took it the wrong way (with the language factor and all).

[Ari 桑]

To Lu: Hehe, that would be akward and quite entertaining. Glad the weather is bareable.

To cdn in beijing: Yeah, chinese guys generally are very comfortable being relatively non-masculine by western standards. I have many straight chinese friends who talk about guys looks all the time. It was very confusing at first. Its deffinitly common to hear a chinese guy say another guy looks very 帅 or whatever. Its all good in my opinion. In fact, I think its why I get along with the average chinese guy alot better than the average american. Its never awkward that I'm not masculine in china. One reason why I like the place so much.

[Thundercat8]

Well, I'm moving to Dalian in a couple of weeks (from the UK) and the thing is, I'm not out in the UK yet but was hoping to lead a more "gay" life in China, to perhaps "find" myself, or something equally cheesy along those lines. Hopefully Dalian is a good place to do that in, but I am completely happy with living the lie which I've been living for the last 21 years! Perhaps I'll find a nice guy from Dalian (Chinese or Western, I don't mind) and live happily ever after. Anyone know of a Dalian gay-scene then?

[Ari 桑]

I've got absolutely no clue about dalian. But my two cents is this: having a close relationship with a chinese person is a most fantastic door into china and chinese itself, simply by the sheer number of things you talk about, and the communication you have.