lansu Posted October 11, 2011 at 06:41 PM Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 at 06:41 PM I wonder if I could resurrect this post -- now four years old -- and ask if anyone has fresh thoughts on how best to refer to “农民” in English? ... I'm sure the term remains highly context driven, I'm interested in the most general term to cover the greatest number of situations in which "农民“ might be used, and since I want to know why this or that term is preferred, I don't want to resort to a poll ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lansu Posted October 13, 2011 at 12:25 PM Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 at 12:25 PM For example, in the title of this article from yesterday's Beijing Morning Post (2011-10/13): 别简单套用农民概念 最近，一条“农民年收入二三十万” 的消息引起社会关注。不少网友质疑其真实性，而记者调查发现，此消息属实。对此，不少舆论分析为何网友不相信是真的，并感叹，究竟有多少农民年收入这么多。 ...and a little later, the reporter admits the concept of 农民 is a little blurred: 其实，“农民”这一概念，早已经很模糊了，在传统的概念中，是有农业户口者，属于农民，以这一概念分析，进城务工者，属于农民；在城市创业开办公司已成大老板，没有落户，也属于农民；考上大学，没迁户口者，属于农民；大学毕业，在城市工作，户口被迁回老家者，也属于农民……以此可见，“农民”中并不乏收入较高者。 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renzhe Posted October 13, 2011 at 12:52 PM Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 at 12:52 PM What about "rural population"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lansu Posted October 14, 2011 at 12:27 AM Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 at 12:27 AM That's good, renzhe, thanks .. Also, I wonder about "villager," because that can imply rural, and also draw out the contrast with "big cities" ... Country mouse? :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michaelyus Posted October 14, 2011 at 12:35 AM Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 at 12:35 AM There will be a few; I get the feeling that the English alternatives, including the politically correct ones, cover the situations differently to the Chinese term 农民. I'm most comfortable with "rural community" when referring a group of people which fit the 农民 description in general, but not necesarily dedicated to agriculture any longer; "agricultural community" and "farming community" for those that actually are active in farming (and in Britain at least, referring to "farming village", "farming town" gives a specifically traditional feel to it). To refer to a person under that descriptor, "member of the rural community" is probably best, although it may refer to wealth and power in a way that 农民 does not necessarily suggest, like the term "landowner" (the term "the landed gentry" is certainly not politically correct in Britain, and is usually restricted to the historical social class). However, it is much more politically correct than "farmer", which has a connotation of actually working in agriculture, as a professional career, and even then that would be expressed with a phrase like "member of the..." or even "working in the agricultural industry". I would generally not consider "villager", "one of the villagefolk/townspeople" or "city-dweller" as politically correct. Slightly personal suggestions, derived mainly from my impressions of official media sources (mainly broadsheet newspapers). And naturally not used by (most?) people in Britain in daily non-PC conversation! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lansu Posted October 14, 2011 at 10:05 PM Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 at 10:05 PM There's little doubt that “农民” is undergoing an accelerated change in reference in Chinese, the term is under considerable political and linguistic pressure to evolve, but acceptance of a true descriptor (corresponding to something like "middle-class" in English) is anathema, most likely because "农民“ describes a desired and not yet fully realized future state, so the term is stuck in neutral while the reality it refers to increasingly fades ... So in English, "peasant" seems no longer to describe any useful category of individual or social class, and no one wants to call well-off "农民" "middle-class," so for now we have to make do with PC euphemisms and other Orwellian-type detours in language (many of which, of course, are useful in context) ... Yet some terms continue to resonate better than others; Peter Hessler still accepts "peasant" in context, as he makes clear when talking about Country Driving in an interview last year (Harper's Magazine): You sometimes refer to Chinese “peasants” and sometimes to “farmers.” What’s the difference?When the term needs to capture the sense of how these people are looked upon by the city folk, I’m more likely to use “peasant.” And when I’m trying to do it in a more functional way, I try to use “farmer.” That’s what I decided for this book. Maybe it’s an imperfect solution. A lot of it has to do with the fact that these are people who don’t own their land; it would be a strain to say it’s a feudal system, but there are elements of that. ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoobyqueen Posted October 15, 2011 at 11:20 AM Report Share Posted October 15, 2011 at 11:20 AM I get into contact with a lot of 农民 through my job. As I had understood it if you are a 农民 it invariably means you have (rent) some land and that you are farming it. It may only be 500 square metres (max is 2 ha which any one person can rent) but they consider themselves farmers. The term for farmer used in the west is 农场主 but this can only be used to refer to a western farmers (since China has socialism) hence somebody farming land in China is referred to as 农民。It is my understanding if you do not have farm land you do not use the term 农民about yourself even if you live in a 农村。 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lansu Posted October 20, 2011 at 05:59 PM Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 at 05:59 PM Interestingly, the 《农村新报》recently carried a story about an emerging artist who lives in rural China [here] Even though he was born into a 农民 family, he did virtually no farming growing up, and instead concentrated all his efforts on becoming an artist ... The ways he is described in the newspaper article (for example, "农民画家" and "一位35岁的农村汉子"), suggest that, in the Chinese context, names meant to designate a population of only those who engage in farming, are evolving, because clearly he never was a farmer, and now he's a full-time artist ... So he is being defined partly by where he lives, partly by his background, partly by how he thinks of himself, and these factors determine how others should think of him (as a "farmer painter") ... I retell the story in English on my blog entry "Farmer Painter" [link to blog]; there, I chose to translate "农村汉子" as "villager," mainly because of context ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeut Posted October 21, 2011 at 11:20 PM Report Share Posted October 21, 2011 at 11:20 PM Village people, LOL. Seriously, I think anything with urban (people) would be an accurate translation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanalian Posted October 22, 2011 at 09:17 AM Report Share Posted October 22, 2011 at 09:17 AM I've lived in China for several decades and I can say that 农民 refers to a kind of vocation we called farmer. There are large amount of people living in villages but not all of them are 农民. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lansu Posted October 22, 2011 at 12:36 PM Report Share Posted October 22, 2011 at 12:36 PM Yeut, I don't understand your remark ... Comments so far have missed the point of my post, revealing yet again how deeply resistant the Western mind is to actual change in China, preferring as it does labels to truth ... 算了吧, 旧的,已经被我踢的没有毛儿了 呵呵 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and select your username and password later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.