蠻 vs 滿

[skylee]

Whenever I hear the word "man" (adv / adj), it translates to 蠻 in my brain. And if I have to write it, it is 蠻. It is 蠻漂亮 (quite pretty), 蠻快 (quite fast), 蠻好笑的 (quite funny), etc.

I've watched a lot of Taiwan dramas lately and it never stops to annoy me when 滿 (instead of 蠻) is used in the subtitles. I know that it means the same, but am very unused to it.

I've watched Jay Chou's "Secret" twice, and I've noticed that 蠻 is used in the subtitles. I am not sure if it has to do with that it is a HK version, or because the scriptwriter is from HK. But I feel happy about it (silly I know).

Views?

[Lu]

I agree that man should be written 蠻 and not 滿. (But then Chinese is not 'my' language, so who am I to have a view on this.) I don't know why the subtitles of 'Secret' would get this right, but I understand your happiness :-) I'd feel the same way.

[skylee]

This probably explains why (but I am unhappy about it) ->

蠻、滿二字於副詞當很、十分時多見混用。如：蠻好與滿好，蠻不錯與滿不錯等。就字之本義推之，滿本有十分的意思，蠻則為種族名，所以若欲選一較適當之用字，於很、十分的意思上，以使用滿字較宜。

[chenpv]

I don't exactly know what the situation is like in HK or TW, but according to my experiences communicating with people from both north and south, I do believe the usage of that character depends on their regional pronunciations. Southerners prefers not only the use of that character but also a unanimous second tone, man2; whereas in the North, people seem to use it within a handful of expressions with a third tone, like the one in 滿不錯。In this sense, if people in TW pronounce the character exactly like those in HK, I tend to second that 蠻 is more appropriate. Besides, I find it a little far-fetching to say '蠻' improper owing to '為種族名'.

蠻 is also used in Shaanxi dialect to describe people, though conveys quite different meanings toward people of different ages. If one says a small child is 蠻, that means he is just cute cute cute, while if one tells you a grown-up is 蠻, that means he is intimidatingly priggish.

[skylee]

In HK, we of course pronounce it in Cantonese, haha. And the two words are not only different in tones. If presented in jyutping, 蠻 is maan4 whereas 滿 is mun3.

[laosheep2007]

As far as I know, their differences are mostly on the pronunciations.

One is man2 "蠻", the other is man3 '滿'

There may be some differences between these two words in the meaning, but often they are interchangeable, as to express the same meaning "quite".

But, there is one interesting thing as far as I know, that the word "蠻" is mainly used in South China, and 滿 in the North. Maybe because the south people were called 南"蠻子" by the north aristocracy, and the last north feudal regime was by "滿族".

[coarsec]

The Simplified Chinese version will be "蛮" and "满" respectively. Though I personally prefer "蛮" to "满" when modifying an adjective/adverb, I often encounter the latter in reading and conversation. In my opinion, there's still some difference between "蛮" and "满" since "蛮" means "quite" while "满" with the meaning "very".

[skylee]

I think the language is evolving. Some decades later people might forget that 蠻 was once used this way at all if teachers keep teaching the kids to use 滿. I remember reading something written by 張愛玲 about her aunt's preference for using 狠 instead of 很. And 狠 really gives a stronger feeling than 很, like 狠好 vs 很好. But this usage is no longer acceptable now that we have standardised the modern chinese language to such an extent.

I agree that 蠻 is more like "quite" whereas 滿 is more like "very". But I think their usage is not really that clear. And if I want to say "very", I would use "很", "真的很", "非常", "真的非常", etc.

[chenpv]

If presented in jyutping, 蠻 is maan4 whereas 滿 is mun3.

Now, that's complicated.

Some decades later people might forget that 蠻 was once used this way at all if teachers keep teaching the kids to use 滿.

May not be that fast I think. At least I haven't seen many young school children in my everyday life, who don't speak a single word of local dialect. What I worry about most is how dictionary will treat it, and consequently how it will affect school students facing examinations. I endured big confusion on a couple of characters' tones months before Gaokao, simply because they were officially re-toned in agreement with the majority's using habit!

And if I want to say "very", I would use "很", "真的很", "非常", "真的非常", etc.

Really? That's...quite unusual for a southerner?

[zozzen]

Interesting observation! 滿 (manchu) was regarded as 蠻 (barbarian) and the modern usage of two characters share an amazingly similar meaning. What's the origins of this meaning?

[trien27]

sozzen:

Simple: 滿 (Manchu) was regarded as 蠻 (barbarian). Manchus 滿 were a barbarian[non-Chinese] tribe who controlled China[1644-1911]. 蠻 = braids used by Mongolian rulers or other tribes who dress their hair in a similar fashion? Since it wasn't the traditional Chinese men's hairstyle, it's considered barbaric. People probably got them confused with one another due to similarities in pronunciation in Mandarin.

[skylee]

蠻 = braids used by Mongolian rulers or other tribes who dress their hair in a similar fashion

Could you tell me the origin of this explanation. I am not sure if 蠻 has this meaning.

Or perhaps you have mixed it up with 辮?

[CG wang]

I think we can use both the two words when we want to express " very". But in the other situation, they are very different. 蠻 always means crude. and 滿 always means full.

[mokushiroku]

I have a book that discusses common errors in character usage. This book also deals with the 蠻 vs 滿 enigma, and concludes in accordance with the information Skylee found: 满 is the correct character to use for phrases like 她满可愛的. However, I still have a problem with this, and hence registered this account:

If 满 truly is the correct character in this case, why does everyone (I live in Taiwan) seem to pronounce it second tone and not third?

[skylee]

Who is the author of that book?

I tend to agree with your observation (I live in HK but have watched a lot of Taiwan TV). I think when people speak what they say or what is in their mind is actually 蠻. But because of the dictionary explanation such as that in #3, when they write they turn it into 滿. hmm ... 精神分裂. 可憐嘞.

BTW, the quote in my #3 is from the 國語辭典 of the Taiwan Education Department. And it says 滿 is "more appropriate", not "correct".