Ni hao and Zai Jian

[Altair]

Nimen hao.

What exactly does “ni3 hao3” mean anyway? I realize that it is a greeting, but does it still carry a literal meaning? If so, is it a wish, a command, or a statement? Is it a reference to the person’s health, character, or general life circumstances? How does all this relate to “ni3 hao3 ma5”? Why is one a statement or wish and the other a question?

I have a similar question about “zai4 jian4” (“good bye”/“see you again”). How literally must we take this meaning? Can this expression be said when one never expects to see the other party again? How about on the telephone, where no “seeing” takes place at all? In other words, if you dial a wrong number, apologize to the party at the other end of the call, do you still say “zai4 jian4” before hanging up on a total stranger whom you have no intention of ever seeing again?

[geek_frappa]

Nimen hao.

What exactly does “ni3 hao3” mean anyway?

nihao means "i wish you well"

I realize that it is a greeting, but does it still carry a literal meaning?

If so, is it a wish, a command, or a statement? Is it a reference to the person’s health, character, or general life circumstances?

... it's a multipurpose expression meaning "how are you?" "have you eaten?" "are you ok?" "hi" "hello" "sup?" "howdy" ... it is generally assumed that you are concerned about the recipient of the greeting.

How does all this relate to “ni3 hao3 ma5”?

um... i have never heard a chinese person say this, but i guess this is ok.

Why is one a statement or wish and the other a question?

it's a wish and a conversation starter... it shows goodwill.

even if you smile, bow and don't mean it. ^_^

[geek_frappa]

I have a similar question about “zai4 jian4” (“good bye”/“see you again”). How literally must we take this meaning?

"see (perceive) (you) later"...

Can this expression be said when one never expects to see the other party again?

baozhong! (take care of yourself!)

How about on the telephone, where no “seeing” takes place at all?

still ok to say, zai jian.

In other words, if you dial a wrong number, apologize to the party at the other end of the call, do you still say “zai4 jian4” before hanging up on a total stranger whom you have no intention of ever seeing again?

if it is a wrong number, chinese will hangup before you get a chance to say zai jian... chinese phone conversation is an art...

wei?!

shi

shi

shi

shi shi shi

dui

shi

shi

shi

shi

hao a

bai bai

[skylee]

This reminds me of -

A. 小平你好 - meaning, I think, both "greetings, comrade Deng Xiaoping", and "well done, comrade Deng Xiaoping"

B. 寶玉, 你好 - (this is what 黛玉 in 紅樓夢 says at her death bed) of course she doesn't mean to say hello to Baoyu or Baoyu has been good to her, but the opposite

Chinese language is really concise and flexible.

[Lu]

I thought Daiyu meant to add something? 'Baoyu, ni hao...'

And 再见 also means 'goodbye', doesn't it? Or is there another word for that?

[geek_frappa]

B. 寶玉, 你好 - (this is what 黛玉 in 紅樓夢 says at her death bed) of course she doesn't mean to say hello to Baoyu or Baoyu has been good to her, but the opposite

whooo... good example, especially for the powerful understatement.

the scene brings that powerful imagery back to life for me.

Or is there another word for that?

yes.

goodbye. zai jian.

goodbye. bai bai.

[skylee]

In fact Daiyu says, "Baoyu, Baoyu, ni hao ... ", then she dies.

Some people like to guess if she means to say more, such as 狠心, 無情, etc. But I think just "ni hao" is powerful enough.

Someone on the internet has compared this scene in 紅樓夢 to the Japanese movie "Love Letter (情書)" in which the female lead (played by Nakayama Miho 中山美穗) yells "O genki desu ka?" (How are you?) and then answers the question herself in the mountains where her lover was killed in a hill-climbing accident. I think it is a very touching movie and this scene is superbly written and executed.

[Quest]

Nimen hao.

What exactly does “ni3 hao3” mean anyway? I realize that it is a greeting, but does it still carry a literal meaning? If so, is it a wish, a command, or a statement? Is it a reference to the person’s health, character, or general life circumstances?

literally: you be well

How does all this relate to “ni3 hao3 ma5”? Why is one a statement or wish and the other a question?

literally: Are you well?

The difference is that when you say "ni hao ma?" you would expect the person to answer you how he/she is doing.

When you just say "ni hao", it's like a casual hello. A polite way to greet a person by telling him/her (and assuming) that everything is fine with that person.

I have a similar question about “zai4 jian4” (“good bye”/“see you again”). How literally must we take this meaning?

Well how literally do you take "see you next time" or "see you"?

Sometimes kids get naughty they would tell you "bu zai jian", and they would get scolded at immediately by their parents. So I guess we do take its literal meaning to a certain degree.

Can this expression be said when one never expects to see the other party again? How about on the telephone, where no “seeing” takes place at all? In other words, if you dial a wrong number, apologize to the party at the other end of the call, do you still say “zai4 jian4” before hanging up on a total stranger whom you have no intention of ever seeing again?

If you are calling someone you know, and you expect to see that person again, you could use "zaijian". But there are lots other ways to end a telephone call.

If you dial a wrong number and you do not know the other person, no you do not say "zaijian". Just say "oh, dui bu qi, da cuo le." or "bu hao yisi, wo an cuo hao ma le".

[wix]

I am not sure who told me this, but I always thought "ni hao" was a fairly recent addition to the language (i.e. in the 20th century, probably introduced by the Communists). Similarly "ni hao ma" is an even more modern construct and is based on a translation of the English phrase "how are you?" The main form of greeting in China used to be "have you eaten yet?" (ni chi fan le mei). However, the Communists thought that it reflected on a kind of poverty where people never had enough to eat so they intorduced "ni hao" as a more politically correct alternative. This is the story I have heard. I don't know if it is true or not.

Interestingly "ni hao" is not commonly used in Taiwan. "Have you eaten yet?" is the preferred form of greeting. Perhaps this gives some evidence of my theory above.

[Ian_Lee]

Interestingly "ni hao" is not commonly used in Taiwan. "Have you eaten yet?" is the preferred form of greeting. Perhaps this gives some evidence of my theory above.

In Cantonese language, hardly do they say "ni hao". Like Taiwan, the first greeting in Hong Kong is also "Have you eaten (breakfast/lunch/dinner) yet?"

In fact, it is almost a rule of thumb not to visit your friends/relatives during lunch or dinner hours. Such act implies that you aim for a free meal.

[ala]

Shanghainese greetings:

We always say: 侬好伐? nonhova? It's like what's up. It's extremely common. Following that is 侬好 (usually used when walking past someone in the halls, or for strangers). We also say 嘿 a lot which is equivalent to hey, and pronounced the same. 最近哪哪? tseujin nana? = how's it going lately? is also pretty common.

"Morning" is just: 朝. There's no good afternoon or good evening, or good night (we express good night through expressions of concern: safe walk home, sleep well etc). And goodbye is 再会 tseiwei; or some expression of a departing action 走咯….　呸 bei (or beibei) is now common too.

All in all, rather similar to standard Mandarin. Formal greetings are much more complicated though. This is just colloquial.

[Altair]

Thanks for all the responses, including those with references to practice in Taiwan, Hongkong, Cantonese, and Shanghainese. I am still a little confused about what to say to whom and when.

Every so often I drop my daughter off with her tennis teacher at dusk and exchange greetings with him. He is from the mainland and speaks Mandarin. What is a natural greeting to use with him. Ni hao or ni hao ma? Or how about wan3 an1? Is that too artificial?

I must also confess to a low level of cultural sophistication and so have not read 紅樓夢, even in translation . What exactly does not "ni hao" emply at the death scene. Has the women just become aware of 寶玉's presence in the room, and so is she greating him, or is something else going on at the time?

By the way, I just noticed on a tape I have of an overseas new broadcast that the announcer signs off by saying 再会. Again, would 再見 really work here, or is 再会 just some sort of radiospeak?

[skylee]

What exactly does not "ni hao" emply at the death scene. Has the women just become aware of 寶玉's presence in the room, and so is she greating him, or is something else going on at the time?

I think what Daiyu says is "反話". Sometimes people say something is "good", "well done", when actually they mean that it is "bad", "poorly done". One of the explanations for "好" given in 現代漢語詞典 is "8. 反話, 表示不滿意".

Baoyu at that time is not at the scene. He is getting married to another cousin. Daiyu dies heart-broken. Alas.

[skylee]

In Hong Kong, when I greet someone I usually say 早晨 (good morning). In the afternoon or evening, I always say "hello", "hi", "喂, hello". Sometimes I say "你好".

For goodbye, I usually say "聽日見" (see you tomorrow), "遲D見" (see you later) (so basically I expect to see them again, i.e. 再見). Or just "bye-bye".

[shibo77]

I hope this helps:

Hello, goodbye would be:

你好! Ni2 hao3! "You good!"

再见! Zai4 jian4! "Again see!"

Farewell, would be:

永别! Yong3 bie2! "Forever part!"

永别了! Yong3 bie2 le5! "Forever parted!"

[xuechengfeng]

unless this only takes place for text book learning purposes, i am really confused as to why random conversations sparked between ticket seller and rider on bus for example would involve saying zaijian..

if this literally means

again see you..

why would the rider say this to the ticket seller if he may never see him again?

is there a better send off than zaijian then?

[smithsgj]

You don't say goodbye in that sort of situation in China anyway. But if you did it would be the same as "Au revoir" in French. It's conventionalized.

[xuechengfeng]

ok, i figured it was a little awkward, and it was just the polite/standard thing to say..

i always thought it was weird ending with zaijian or zaitan.. cuz how often do you see or talk to the ticket seller again

[chapka]

Well, when English speakers meet, often we say "Hello," which is a modern variant of the word "Holla." Literally this means something like "Halt!"

Likewise, when we part, we generally say "Goodbye," which is a shortened form of the phrase "God be with you."

But we use "Hello" even if the person's not moving, and "Goodbye" even if we don't think they deserve a blessing (or don't believe in God). Greetings in most languages are so formalized that we don't even think about their "literal" meanings any more. It's usually only foreigners encountering these phrases for the first time that worry about such things.

Dave Barry wrote a column about this, saying that French teachers must be kidding when they told us to greet people with a French phrase meaning literally "How do you go?" He figured that a real Frenchman would respond by saying something like, "I go on foot, obviously. You must have the brains of a trout."

[pazu]

the Japanese movie "Love Letter (情書)" in which the female lead (played by Nakayama Miho 中山美穗) yells "O genki desu ka?" (How are you?)

.

You've seen this movie too? I love this movie, and seen it a few times and was always touched when Nakayama said "o-genki desuka?" to the snow mountain, until my Japanese told me a variation.

He said, "o benki desuka?" instead... お便器ですか？

I couldn't forget this joke, whenever I saw the movie again, I couldn't help but laugh...