Lust Caution 色，戒

[Luobot]

Related language question:

I know that 色 (se4) is commonly used to mean ‘color’ and that 色 combines with many characters to represent all the colors of the rainbow. What I’m curious about is how 色 comes to mean ‘lust’ in the title of this movie. Is 色 commonly used to mean 'lust' in either conversation or writing?

Looking up the word 'lust' online, the closest I’ve been able to find is 欲望 (yu4wang4), which means 'desire / passion.'

Does anyone know or have any possible theory why the character was used in the title of this movie?

[skylee]

Is 色 commonly used to mean 'lust' in either conversation or writing?

Yes, it is quite common. Take a look -> http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/cgi-bin/agrep-lindict?query=%A6%E2&category=wholerecord&boo=or&order=all

(3) Sex, woman's charm: 女色 ditto;

色情，色慾 [se4qing2], [se4yU4]↓;

色迷，色鬼 [se4mi2], [se4gui3]↓;

戒之在色 (during youth) avoid temptation of sex;

色衰 (woman) past her prime;

美色 feminine beauty;

好 [hao4] 色 be fond of female company, indulge in affairs with women.

Also this -> http://140.111.34.46/cgi-bin/dict/GetContent.cgi?Database=dict&DocNum=136849&GraphicWord=yes&QueryString=色

女色，容貌美麗的婦女。論語˙季氏：少之時，血氣未定，戒之在色。唐˙白　居易˙長恨歌：漢皇重色思傾國，御宇多年求不得。

性慾、情慾。如：色情、桃色糾紛。孟子˙告子上：告子曰：食、色，性也。

[Luobot]

Wow, that's a great vocabulary list.

Thanks, Skylee!

[Lu]

Wushijiao, if those don't count as sex scenes, I wonder what would.

I thought it was a good movie, but was sorry about the ending. It could have been a bit happier, at least for any of the parties, with it still being a good movie.

Both Tang Wei and Tony Leung act really well, and Wang Leehom did alright. Another actor would have done better, and in a way it's a pity the role went to him, but in the end, he wasn't bad.

And on a side note, I don't blame Ang Lee for not knowing either pinyin or Wade-Giles, but why on earth didn't he hire someone who does. In the credits, the original story (and thus the very title of the movie) is referred to as 'Se, jei'. Twice.

I read somewhere else that he went with W-G in the subtitles, as the story takes place in the 1930s. Well, that's fine. But then do it consistently, 'Wong' and 'Mak' are not W-G, the character was not Cantonese, they never spoke Cantonese, and only a small part of the movie takes place in HK. Also, know your rules: in W-G, it's Wang Chia-chih not Wong Chia Chi.

Yah, end of rant. All in all, a good movie.

[wushijiao]

Wushijiao, if those don't count as sex scenes, I wonder what would.

Don't read if you haven't seen it.

I thought the first one was more of a rape scene. (That's why I said scenes with nudity, not sex scenes. I think some of the power of the female character is that you can feel her suffering, and then her twist in her more complicated emotions towards Mr. Yee

[Luobot]

Ang Lee's (李安) film Lust, Caution was prevented from competing as a Taiwanese film for the Best Foreign Film Award at next year's Oscars by the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences. The reason? Too many key members of the production were not Taiwanese, which raises the interesting question of how films are defined by their "nationality."” ( article ).

Was caution of a political intrigue more at play than the lust for art?

[Lu]

I think the reasoning for that decision is utterly weird. After all, it's called 'Best Foreign Film', not 'Best Taiwanese Film'. The only cast member that is not entirely foreign from an American perspective is Wang Lihong, the rest is from abroad. Se Jie sure as hell isn't a domestic American film, so being a foreign film, shouldn't it be eligible to compete for the 'Best Foreign Film' award?

I heard that now Taiwan is sending in Island Etude. Sweet movie, and as Taiwanese as they come, but it's never ever going to win an Oscar.

Also I was wondering about one point in the movie. DO NOT read if you haven't seen it.

Tang Wei is going through with the assasination plot until one point, the moment Liang Chaowei gives her the huge shiny ring. Then, and only then, does she decide she doesn't want him to get killed. Now I wonder, why only at that moment? 難道 he won her over with that ring, 難道 money and diamonds are so important to her? I hope someone can shed some light on this.

[skylee]

Yes right at that moment. It is the way he looks that touches her. From the novel (found on the web) -

陪歡場女子買東西，他是老手了，只一旁隨侍，總使人不注意他。此刻的微笑也絲毫不帶諷刺性，不過有點悲哀。他的側影迎著臺燈，目光下視，睫毛像米色的蛾翅，歇落在瘦瘦的面頰上，在她看來是一種溫柔憐惜的神氣。

這個人是真愛我的，她突然想，心下轟然一聲，若有所失。

[Lu]

Then I think this is a weak point in the film. He could have looked like that at any time, and she could have realized that 這個人真愛她 at any moment, it didn't have to be at such a crucial point. There is no reason why it had to be just then, I think, apart from the fact that it makes for a better movie, movie-wise. I hope you understand what I mean.

Also, making it happen at just that moment gives rise to the misconception that she does what she does only because of what he gives her at that moment.

(Hoping I am vague enough to not give anything away.)

[skylee]

The novel was written a long time ago so the plot would have little to do with the film.

The misconception is common. I think it happens at that moment because she knows what would happen next otherwise (hope this is vague enough ).

[Lu]

Yeah, but she has known all day what would happen otherwise, doesn't she? So she could have just not let him go there in the first place.

Hm, I hoped for a satisfying explanation that would make me understand that actually it could only have been that moment, but it seems I'm out of luck.

[skylee]

Speaking of weak points in the film, all HK audience would notice that there was no 皇后碼頭 in 尖沙嘴.

[zotium]

it's a nice film, however the sex scenes are a bit overdone and the movie a bit long

[laolee]

Lu, What I got from the ring scene was it was only at this point that Tang Wei finally realized that Tony really loved her. See if this makes sense: In the opening scene, the first time the audience sees them together, the quail egg diamond is mentioned. So, when she gets the diamond in the end, we remember for her, that he remembered. This touched her heart, it wasn't crass greed at all in my mind.

[skylee]

Has anyone watched the mainland version? Does anyone know anyone who has? Anyone has any more comments to share?

[skylee]

This is one of the best scenes (very poor video, just watch the first 3 mins please) -> http://v.mdbchina.com/detail/5122867/

How she acts, how he is moved ......

And here are the 1930's originals -

The sad version -> http://hk.youtube.com/watch?v=IbQEBrN84KI&feature=related

The not-sad version -> http://hk.youtube.com/watch?v=hxu8Kxuf-Sg&feature=related

[muyongshi]

I have been debating about whether or not to see it (usually leaning towards seeing it) but that short clip sealed the deal...as soon as I get a chance I'll be looking for it.

[laolee]

Has anyone watched the mainland version? Does anyone know anyone who has? Anyone has any more comments to share?

Here is an article comparing the mainland vs overseas versions.

http://www.zonaeuropa.com/200711a.brief.htm#003 - English

http://www.nanfangdaily.com.cn/southnews/dsyl/200711010454.asp - Chinese

[muyongshi]

I almost bought it today but the lady in the store said the quality was really bad and they would have a better one soon...

[skylee]

The film has just won many golden horse awards, including best leading actor (Tony Leung), new actor (Tang Wei), director (Ang Lee), adapted script, and best picture.

Chen Chong (Mrs Yi in the film) has won the best actress award for her performance in another film.