Keats (Kunming) or TLI (Chaoyang)

[IndhuRen]

I have done all the 3 levels of Pimsleur mandarin. i am also learning characters from Zhang PengPeng's book. I can recognize and write 300 hanzi and I am sure I can learn another 300-400 in a couple of months. I would thus call myself as a scratch above the beginner learner.

Ok, I had read the consistently positive reviews on TLI schools and so I had earlier decided to go to TLI (Chaoyang) and spend 150 hrs of 1-to-1 instruction. I had figured out all my expenses and think would cost about US$ 4,600 including airfare+accomodation+fees+books+food for 2 1/2 months. My original plan was to take 3 hrs per day (2hrs of conversation + 1hr of grammar). During my free time, I would practice BLCU's comprehension course (tingli something...). During the week ends, I would watch movies on my laptop and also roam around a bit to try to talk to the locals. The intension was to do as much as possible in the 2 1/2 months to justify the expense......

Ok, recently I read the post from dstromy regarding keats and he has some nice words to say about it.....

http://www.chinese-forums.com/showpost.php?p=119292&postcount=4

Ok, Keats seems to be a good deal in terms of the fees and accomodation. If I spend 3 months at keats, the expense would work out to be US$ 4000 max and moreover I would get added incentives like a single room and internet connection. The total contact hours in Keats would also work out to 240 hrs. In the case of TLI, I would have to put up with 2in1 room and no internet connection. The biggest drawback with Keats would be due to its location. People in Kunming speak Yunnanhua and I would not hear standard Mandarin there. BTW Kunming would probably have a better weather than Beijing in November when I was planning to go to China.

I am desperate to have a reasonable level of fluency for daily conversation as I live in singapore where the majority speak Mandarin

Ok here are my questions?

1) How would 150 hrs at TLI compare with 240 hrs at Keats.

2) Can any one even expect to hear and understand standard Mandarin spoken at normal speed by Beijingers.

3) Irrespective of whether i go to TLI or Keats can I ever hope to attain fluency for daily conversation in 2 1/2 to 3 months time.

:help:help:help

Thinking about this issue is giving me a head ache. I want to make a decision in 1 or 2 weeks time so that I can concentrate and get my work finished before leaving for China in November....

[jackie tang]

hi,i think maybe you can try to cantact with another Chinese school whick named Kunming College of Eastern Language and Culture,i heard that there were more than 300 overseas students choiced this school study Chinese,i think it is a professional school.you can call this number 0871-5358860 or email:lxyn@elcec.com get more details,i have one friend work in this school.or you can email me txdguilin@hotmail.com,i will help you if i can.

take care

[IndhuRen]

I am wondering whether I missed out something. Come on guys, I need the input from you all. This issue is driving me nuts as i spend the whole day with my calculator calculating the expenses again and again. I am sure some one should have gone to both TLI and Keats. Or if not would atleast know which is the better choice..........

[gato]

Don't cry, IndhuRen. Try these threads. The local dialect seems to be the biggest issue.

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/6581-beijing-vs-kunming&highlight=kunming+mandarin
Beijing vs. Kunming

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/861-online-degree-bad-idea3&highlight=kunming+mandarin
Kunming dialect?

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/9182-is-anyone-studying-or-studied-in-kunming&highlight=kunming+mandarin anyone studying or studied in kunming?

[imron]

i have one friend work in this school.

Only one friend? According to your post here, you're the director of studies for that school. Surely people don't dislike you that much?

hi,i think maybe you can try to cantact with another Chinese school whick named Kunming College of Eastern Language and Culture,i heard that there were more than 300 overseas students choiced this school study Chinese,i think it is a professional school.

Do professional schools encourage their employees to use underhanded tactics to promote said school on internet forums, or is that just something you decided to do on your own?

[IndhuRen]

Don't cry, IndhuRen. Try these threads. The local dialect seems to be the biggest issue.

http://www.chinese-forums.com/showth...nming+mandarin

Beijing vs. Kunming

http://www.chinese-forums.com/showth...nming+mandarin

Kunming dialect?

http://www.chinese-forums.com/showth...ing+mandarinis anyone studying or studied in kunming?

Sorry for sounding wimpish Sir:oops: But I am really anxious about this issue. I had initially made up my mind about studying at TLI for 2 1/2 months as my financial situation would not enable me to stay any longer. However, in the case of Kunming, I might be able to save atleast 1000 US$ and stay longer (3 months) in a single room with internet connection........

I went through your links, seems that the biggest problem with Kunming is the dialect. But then I reckon that if I took 4 hrs of 1-to-1 per day, I am bound to have tons of HW. I would spend the weekends watching Chinese movies or even doing some shopping. Anyway I am not sure whether anybody would become fluent in 3 months time............

The main reason why I want to make a decision soon is that I am currently in the Singapore Army Reserves, my annual Military service falls on January. If I need excemption from the training to visit China, then I need to request early to the MoD for excemption. This takes a lot of time......

[mr.stinky]

classes at elcec begin next monday, i'll check in with jackie first thing. could be he no

longer works there? i don't recall seeing him the final couple weeks of last term. anyhoo,

i don't believe he's trying to hide anything; he did say he was a director in another post.

[gato]

I went through your links, seems that the biggest problem with Kunming is the dialect. But then I reckon that if I took 4 hrs of 1-to-1 per day, I am bound to have tons of HW. I would spend the weekends watching Chinese movies or even doing some shopping. Anyway I am not sure whether anybody would become fluent in 3 months time............

If you learn enough of the basics (like pinyin, radicals, grammar) and as many characters as you can (because that's just rote memorization) before coming to China, three months might be enough to get you close to everyday conversational fluency. You will need to be diligent, though -- meaning at least eight hours a day of one form of study or another.

Maybe stinky or someone else who knows Kunming well can tell us about the dialect situation in Kunming and how likely it is to hear Mandarin on the streets.

[IndhuRen]

If you learn enough of the basics (like pinyin, radicals, grammar) and as many characters as you can (because that's just rote memorization) before coming to China, three months might be enough to get you close to everyday conversational fluency.

I would have learnt 750 characters from ZhangPengPeng's book. I also know Pinyin. But can fluency be reached if I go to Keats rather than to TLI?

You will need to be diligent, though -- meaning at least eight hours a day of one form of study or another.

That I can guarantee Sir. I am using my entire life savings here . I am determined to put as much work as possible.

[mr.stinky]

kunminghua is definitely different! i won't say i can understand even half of what the 'locals'

are saying to me, although i can usually get the gist of it. ('locals' here being construction

workers, farmers, and old folks.) but when they're talking amongst themselves, forget it!

the short answer is, you'll hear both dialect and mandarin on the streets.

fortunately, almost everyone can speak standard (although with an accent), so the local

dialect shouldn't be too much of a concern. there be plenty of students at ynnu/ynu and

other schools to practice with.

as to your expenses, US$4000 for three months seems excessive. you should be able

to make that last about six months. i assume you'll be staying in expensive school

lodging? see the links below for current rental ads:

http://www.gokunming.com/en/classifieds/index.php?folder_id=14

http://www.gokunming.com/en/classifieds/index.php?folder_id=15

you should be able to find a short-term rental share for 350-450 rmb/month.

as to tuition, elcec rates for 1:1 over a 20-week term are 10,000 rmb for 10 hours/week,

or 18,000 rmb for 18 hours/week. those are the standard options; i'm sure the school

can work out a program for any number of hours over any number of weeks. (i'm taking

the small class, but students i've spoken with have been pleased with the tutoring.)

[dstormy1]

Just a reminder...come to the good ole USA and try to find "standard" English anywhere but the evening news...I dare you. Boston itself has 5 distinct dialects from "Brahman" to "Southy". Wichita is part of the south as far as accent goes, Greenville MS accent sounds like thick chocolate mud, and what can I say about Lubbock TX. Minnesota and Wisconsin sound more like Canada. And California with Valley-Girl Speak???

Then pick England's English, Scotland's, Belfast's, Sydney's, Toronto's etc. Standard English is what I speak...all the rest of u's have an accent.

Bejing putonghua is standard ONLY for Han Chinese who really like to "gargle" their "R's". I know, that maybe a harsh opinion but....

In the last two decades several hundred million people moved from rural to urban China. The cities EVERYWHERE in China have become very mixed dialectically (probably both senses).

Just pick a city or area of China you think you'd like, that you can afford, go there and learn and practice speaking. The schools and teachers all speak and teach a fairly standardized university level speech. They will keep YOUR accent in the middle. As far as the streets are concerned...its a jungle out there, dialectically speaking. Have fun where ever you go!

Stormy

PS: I like Keats and mr.stinky likes ECLAC. We're both correct. I've heard only good things about ECLAC. But Keats focuses only One to One instruction and ECLAC has mostly classes. Keats is smaller and much more personal....tho I've heard no one complaining about ECLAC.

[gato]

I would have learnt 750 characters from ZhangPengPeng's book. I also know Pinyin. But can fluency be reached if I go to Keats rather than to TLI?

I think it's possible if we are only talking about conversational fluency. But if you need to make a presentation in Mandarin about the national defense infrastructure of Singapore to the troops, then three months is probably not enough.

Another thing to consider is do a language exchange or board with a family when you are there. Mr. Stinky and others in Kunming might be able to tell us how you could go about this. This could help you get more practice speaking Mandarin outside the classroom. That helped me a lot when I was learning Spanish in Mexico.

[IndhuRen]

PS: I like Keats and mr.stinky likes ECLAC. We're both correct. I've heard only good things about ECLAC. But Keats focuses only One to One instruction and ECLAC has mostly classes. Keats is smaller and much more personal....tho I've heard no one complaining about ECLAC.

Hi Mr.dstromy, you mentioned in one of your posts that you took the course for 3 month at Keats. Would it be too rude if I asked you how much money you spent during the entire duration of the course for books, fees, lodging and food but excluding the airfare.....

BTW are the Keats student dorms located beside the school or is it a long commute from the dorms to the school....