Louis Cha's works replacing Ah-Q in high school textbooks

[skylee]

I've read it in this report -> 北京高中課本換血，金庸《飛狐》取代魯迅《阿Q》

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自今年九月一日起，北京市高中的語文教學將一分為二，其中東城、西城、朝陽等九個區縣將使用一套全新的教材。三年前，當金庸的《天龍八部》被選入大陸高中語文教材時，曾經引發「武俠小說是否為文學」的討論；而北京市這次選入《飛狐外傳》，則引發「金庸是否取代魯迅」的議論。

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[wushijiao]

曾經引發「武俠小說是否為文學」的討論

On the question of whether or not wu'xia novels have literary merit, my gut instinct is to say that they certainly do.

I've been very fascinated with the following questions:

1) How do books get into the "canon" of modern classics (ie. Zhang Yimou adapts the novel into a movie. It seems like Zhang is a kingmaker).?

2) Who are the credible book reviewers?

3) Do students debate literature in the classrooms? Are they encouraged to argue positions or express their feelings about books?

4) Do the teachers and the system do their best to cultivate "readers for life"?

5) Do the selected books connect with young people?

It seems to me, and I might be wrong, but the answers to all of these questions wouldn't be pretty. I don't want to insult Ah-Q, but it seems like adding Jin Yong isn't a bad idea.

[gato]

Not having read Louis Cha, I don't know how good his work is. I like Lu Xun's stories, though I understand why today's students don't like them. Most of the stories are very dark, whereas today's Chinese media is filled with positive feelings. Those who are brought up to think happy thoughts inevitably can't understand the negative feelings. Even if they feel it, they might not understand it, and that's okay with the power that be.

You can read a more detailed article about this change here:

http://www.gywb.cn/show_asp/news_gao.asp?pz=%D0%C2%CE%C5%D6%D0%D0%C4&id=70818102714&g_gao=news_gao

弃鲁迅而取金庸语文书改版变味？

“金庸文章不知道大家是否看过，我非常喜欢。里面刻画的人物生动活泼、经典，有血有肉，在他世界里有情有义，看完能告诉我们什么才叫人生，怎么才能成为那些英雄。”说到金庸的小说时，19岁的黎松林这样说。

小黎今年刚刚从湖南省醴陵一中毕业，正在家等候大学录取通知书。他学的是文科，但是语文成绩不算很好，尤其是作文，经常挨老师的批评，并有过被叫到老师办公室“挨骂”的经历。

“不喜欢！”提到课本中的鲁迅文章，小黎直言不讳地表示，“我觉得鲁迅的文章应该删了！不是说他写得不好，鲁迅是一个伟大的作家，但是我们想看的是通俗易懂的文章，他的文章太难懂了。”小黎说：“初中、高中一个样，都是鲁迅。自打小学我就记得，考试的时候，只要把老师讲的关于鲁迅文章难懂的地方弄明白，背熟了，考试成绩肯定优秀。编教材的应该都是些叔叔阿姨吧，我们不喜欢那些故弄玄虚的东西，也不喜欢用文字勾心斗角。”这位19岁的少年刚刚结束了中学生活，似乎有一种不吐不快的感觉。

[zozzen]

I think the growing confidence in Chinese culture is reflected in this change. Rather than self-criticism in Ah-Q, Louis Cha's book insists Chinese moral virtues and shows us how people of the 'old' world would react to the problems we would face today. The communists need a rebirth of these values they took many years to destroy, in order to tackle social unrest and social 'evils' .

[Lu]

3) Do students debate literature in the classrooms? Are they encouraged to argue positions or express their feelings about books?

If the various literature classes I took in Taiwan are any standard to go by, the answer to this one is a firm no.

As to replacing Lu Xun with Jin Yong: from the one book I read of him, Jin Yong sure is an awesome writer, so nothing against including him in the curriculum. But Lu Xun is widely regarded as China's greatest modern writer, and A Q as his most famous book. It does not seem a good idea to exclude it, Chinese children should know about this writer, this book, and their background.

Furthermore, chances are they would read Jin Yong anyway, while they would be less likely to pick up Lu Xun on their own accord. All the more reason to introduce them to it in school, then they at least have read it. They might even like it, or remember it later in life and like it then, but if they are never introduced to it, they will have no chance to like it.

[studentyoung]

@ gato

Not having read Louis Cha, I don't know how good his work is. I like Lu Xun's stories, though I understand why today's students don't like them.

No doubt, Louis Cha is a great writer. However, I think Lu Xun’s stories need someone with deep thoughts to read, especially the social back grounds of his stories and essays were far beyond a present-day middle school student’s understanding. What’ more, I think Louis Cha’s books to most Chinese middle students are like Harry Potter other than deep books. It might take these students have more social experience to understand the deep thoughts in Louis Cha’s works.

Most of the stories are very dark, whereas today's Chinese media is filled with positive feelings.

Well, I don’t think so. There are still a lot of negative feelings in today’s Chinese media.

Those who are brought up to think happy thoughts inevitably can't understand the negative feelings. Even if they feel it, they might not understand it, and that's okay with the power that be.

I don’t think students nowadays can’t understand the negative feelings. The only problem is they are overloaded with pressures, like homework, higher education, education fee, job and future, etc. so they hope to escape from these stresses and feel hard or reluctant to try to understand other’s negative feelings.

@zozzen

Louis Cha's book insists Chinese moral virtues and shows us how people of the 'old' world would react to the problems we would face today.

Louis Cha’s book doesn’t simply offer an answer to tell us how to do, but it always try to discuss why there are so many social problems in those days which still exist in present days. “鹿鼎记” is a good example. Moral virtues in his books are not something fixed, but changeable, according to the actors own conditions. If you understand these, you can understand why Louis Cha’s write from 大侠，中侠，小侠to finally 无侠.

The communists need a rebirth of these values they took many years to destroy, in order to tackle social unrest and social 'evils'

Considering how to set up a fair, justice and efficient social system can help to tackle social unrest and social evils quickly and rebirth the values long lost gradually. That’s why in some historical period, people didn’t need suffer from social unrest and social evils, though they didn’t read Louis Cha’s books in their life.

Thanks!

[Meng Lelan]

Jin Yong is Louis Cha's Chinese name, right? Which of his stories are going into the high school textbooks and where can I view the simplified character version of his stories?

[gato]

Jin Yong is Louis Cha's Chinese name, right? Which of his stories are going into the high school textbooks and where can I view the simplified character version of his stories?

The title is given in skylee's opening post. You can find it on baidu.

[rob07]

These days poor old Ah Q wouldn't even be Ah Q any more. He'd be "Ah G" instead.

我曾仔细想：阿Quei，阿桂还是阿贵呢？... 生怕注音字母还未通行，只好用了“洋字”，照英国流行的拼法写他为阿Quei，略作阿Q。

Ah G doesn't work as well, because I understand that Q is supposed to be a double pun: it is a homonym for "queue" and looks like a head with a queue coming off it (ie: the tail of the Q). At a simpler level, I personally find the sight of the letter Q strewn liberally through a page of Chinese characters very funny.

Does anyone know if "Quei" is intended to be the sound of 桂/贵 in Mandarin, or some kind of Wu dialect?

I love Ah Q, and think it would be a big loss to leave it out, but Lu Xun can definitely be pretty harsh when describing what he sees as the Chinese national character:

有人说：有些胜利者，愿意敌手如虎，如鹰，他才感得胜利的欢喜；假使如羊，如小鸡，他便反觉得胜利的无聊。又有些胜利者，当克服一切之后，看见死的死了，降的降了，“臣诚惶诚恐死罪死罪”，他于是没有了敌人，没有了对手，没有了朋友，只有自己在上，一个，孤另另，凄凉，寂寞，便反而感到了胜利的悲哀。然而我们的阿Q却没有这样乏，他是永远得意的：这或者也是中国精神文明冠于全球的一个证据了。

[skylee]

Meng Lelan, in case you can't access .tw websites, the titles are 《飛狐外傳》and 《天龍八部》. The former is relatively short (2 volumes) but there is another inter-related story which is another volume. The latter is among the longest of his novels (5 volumes).

You can find them here (, there and everywhere) -> http://www.kuwang.com/literature/wx/jinyong/index.htm

[Lu]

Does anyone know if "Quei" is intended to be the sound of 桂/贵 in Mandarin, or some kind of Wu dialect?

I always assumed it was Mandarin. If you forget all about Hanyu pinyin for a minute and look at the word 'quei', you'd pronounce it as 'kwei', just what 貴/桂 sounds like.

Ah-G reminds me of Ali G :-/ Ah well, Ah Q might as well have been Ah-K in those days, Wade-Giles was already invented, wasn't it?

I used to think that the title of the book ought to be pronounced 'A-gui', since that's what it stands for, but everybody says 'A-kyu' anyway.

[reisen]

Haha, I am a chinese high school student.....

I like Luxun more. I liked Jinyung very much when I was in Grade 6 or 7 l think. But maybe because my parents work in Universities, mum talked a lot about the society and literature to me, maybe " home-education " influences me to think more.

JingYung in my sight is like harry potter or some popular novels. He has a big literatur grace, and his story is dramatic, livly. He's also a great dreamer.By reading his books, many Chinese immerse them selves in great fantasy. He realized many chinese men's dreams in his books Like Wei xiaobao（韦小 宝）who has 7 wife, or some one who adept in martial arts and given to chivalrous conduct. But it's not reality, it's naive and shallow.

For Luxun, he is a so melancholic and sensitive person. He thought a lot, he worried about the whole country. He is pessimistic, realistic. He is also despair for the people whom he want to save or work for. The most Chinese people who lived in low-class are so poor, and blind. Just like in (人血馒头)， The revolutionist sacrificed their lives to realize their ideality, to save the poor people. But the ones who the revolutionist want to save eat the steamed bread with his blood, and think the blood is curative.

And also Aha- Qiu, Kong yiji(孔乙己)， they are kind of typical poor chinese people with ridiculous philosophy. Even the people now in china are kind of inheriting them.

I don't think Luxun is like what our high-school textbook says,regards him as a brave revolutionist. He want to help the poor or something like that.

His mind changes a lot during his life. He sympathize these poors. But the same time he find The poors are so blind, sightless, and ignorant.

He is ambivalent. He do made a lot to help the poors to save them from the darkness. He hate the bureaucracy, but he also don't know whether it worthes to help the other ignorant people they even don't know how to say thank, they don't have belief, they just know eating, complaining and suffering.

Most times he is just a spectator.

hehe, only my opinion.

And also, I think it depends on chinese teacher. I was so lucky that i also had a good chinese teacher in high school. It really advocates me to read more write more think more.

sorry for my english:tong.

[gato]

I agree, reisen. I think the authorities are de-emphasizing Lu Xun because his work causes to people to think about social problems, which stands in the way of building a "harmonious society." It fits much better with the program if people read the Chinese equivalent of Harry Potter.

[skylee]

the Chinese equivalent of Harry Potter

If it means Jin Yong's books, I strongly disagree.

[gato]

Just following reisen's characterization. I haven't read Jin Yong myself. But I do wonder what the arguments are that Jin Yong's work's more suitable for high school than Lu Xun's is.

[reisen]

I haven't read any Luxun for almost 2 years.....

Just busy working with German, English, Math, Chemistry......

Just so shocked that so many none-chinese understand much more China and History than us...

so shame......

Maybe find sometime to read chinese more. But mum think english is useful. Chinese is now not so importand for me to spend more time, but english do. My english is so poor....

[skylee]

But I do wonder what the arguments are that Jin Yong's work's more suitable for high school than Lu Xun's is.

Where is it mentioned that Cha's works are more suitable for high school than Lu Xun's?

[gato]

Where is it mentioned that Cha's works are more suitable for high school than Lu Xun's?

Isn't that implied by adding Cha and reducing Lu Xun?

See here:

http://www.gywb.cn/show_asp/news_gao.asp?pz=%D0%C2%CE%C5%D6%D0%D0%C4&id=70818102714&g_gao=news_gao

继《天龙八部》部分章节被选入人教版全日制普通高级中学语文读本之后，金庸武侠名作《雪山飞狐》也出现在了最近课改后的北京语文泛读备选篇目中。与此同时，在各地的课改中，鲁迅、朱自清等名家的作品数量逐渐减少，如鲁迅的《一件小事》、《祝福》、《药》和朱自清的《荷塘月色》、《背影》等文章，在各种版本的语文课本中慢慢淡出

[reisen]

For high school in China, It's competetive.... The intelligentest students acturally do not work that hard and much as you think. Like my best friends who are top 1% or even I can say top 0.01%. They do have time to think to read to get the things they want. And as well as the best scores best Universities.

But for the common students. They must learn how to write test, how to get higher scores. Then there's no meaning to talk about wether they undetstand the history or not, wether they understand Luxun or not. Of course NOT!!! Besides massive homework, the other thing is Japanes cartoons, or love(but called 早恋in chinese high school....), or computer games.

so, anyway. 我们是垮掉的一代.

maybe I am too pessimism.

[chenpv]

I ended up falling asleep pretty quickly when I tried to read some pages of Louis Cha's work years back. Don't know why, but his words seemed hard to sink in...

In the above posts, studentyoung said:

Louis Cha’s book doesn’t simply offer an answer to tell us how to do, but it always try to discuss why there are so many social problems in those days which still exist in present days.

while gato said:

I think the authorities are de-emphasizing Lu Xun because his work causes to people to think about social problems, which stands in the way of building a "harmonious society."

Now I am a bit confused. So what is in Louis Cha's work anyway?