Louis Cha's works replacing Ah-Q in high school textbooks

[gato]

But for the common students. They must learn how to write test, how to get higher scores. Then there's no meaning to talk about wether they undetstand the history or not, wether they understand Luxun or not. Of course NOT!!!

There's too much indoctrination in the Chinese education system. Students in the West on the average probably have less academic knowledge than the average Chinese student, but they are likely to be much more capable of thinking for themselves.

[reisen]

I think in Louis Cha's ....

just stories to describe a old society. always a 大侠 with all positive spirit. ...

something like that i think

[reisen]

it's right, but when i was in Germany, my hostsister only used the time to chatting or do other useless things and waste of time. So I really don't know if it's good to give children so many free time. They can not control themselves.

And many Germans young poeple on my sights are also ignorant and arrogant, really don't think they are better than my friends.maybe I am too arrogant.... maybe I am in best ranked high school or maybe my friends are just the same group of people.... don't know

I think the one who wants to learn will be a thoughtful insightful person wether in china or in western countries. The ones who are not so, will have a happier life if they live in western countries.

Not everyone is elite，not everyone can be. But the reality in China made all the things so competetive, because we need to eat to get a place to sleep.

[chenpv]

They must learn how to write test, how to get higher scores. Then there's no meaning to talk about wether they undetstand the history or not, wether they understand Luxun or not. Of course NOT!!!

Well, I personally think it's not a problem whether student truly understand Luxun or not, but a real problem whether all those diverse thoughts about Luxun's work can be reasonably, if not equally, accredited in exams or discussions(if there were any).

[gato]

Luxun or not, but a real problem whether all those diverse thoughts about Luxun's work can be reasonably, if not equally, accredited in exams or discussions(if there were any).

Yeah, I guess you can't say Lu Xun's a bad writer on the exam, for example, that he's melodramatic, too pessimistic, or a bit repetitive. Are you allowed to say Lu Xun is too 消极?

[reisen]

You can, but then no score.

we are just test machine.....

sadly i am not a good one......

[wushijiao]

Then there's no meaning to talk about wether they undetstand the history or not, wether they understand Luxun or not. Of course NOT!!!

Hehe...I talked to my wife (who was educated in Mainland system) about this tonight. She said that her teacher just used Lu Xun's writings as a chance to lecture about the difference between 资产阶级 and 无产阶级. Lu Xun must be boring as all hell when taught by teachers like that.

[reisen]

not that all....

Most of teachers...

Luckily I had a great mum and a great Chinese teacher in high school....

but we still must write the 无产阶级革命家... such kind of things in exams...

I think some chinese teachers in school such as my during grade 8 and 9, they themselvese even don't know what is history what it is reality.... He was so boring and disgusting:twisted:

[gato]

Lu Xun's writings as a chance to lecture about the difference between 资产阶级 and 无产阶级.

Lu Xun's family obviously was a part of 资产阶级 then. No way he and his brothers could have gotten the education they had and go abroad to Japan if they weren't.

As an aside, 资产阶级 is the Chinese translation for bourgeoisie, and 无产阶级 is the translation for proletariat. Notice that the Chinese means something different from the English/European original.

"Bourgeoisie" are the middle and upper middle class city dwellers. They don't necessarily own any capital (which in Marxist terminology refers to means of production). 资产阶级 sounds like 资本家 (capitalist). A more accurate translation would be 中产阶级.

“Proletariat” means laborer or worker. 无产阶级 is a mistranslation. A better translation would be 劳动阶级.

[wushijiao]

“Proletariat” means laborer or worker. 无产阶级 is a mistranslation. A better translation would be 劳动阶级.

True. But why on earth would they ever teach real Marxism in a country that is more ripe for a Communist revolution than any country in Europe was in the 19th Century?

In any case, if a teacher was taught to teach Lu Xun based on orthodox Commie propaganda when he or she started teaching in, say, 1983, he or she might very well likely teach using the same orthodoxy until he or she retires in 2020 or so. That's a vote for Jin Yong! (Of course, I'm not insulting Lu Xun, but rather than way he has been idolized).

[chenpv]

Yeah, I guess you can't say Lu Xun's a bad writer on the exam, for example, that he's melodramatic, too pessimistic, or a bit repetitive. Are you allowed to say Lu Xun is too 消极?

As long as you have a good reason to gun him down, for instance, be in favor of something advocated in a modern era by the party and the like, though you still have to use ugly euphemisms.

[reisen]

The just utilize Marxism. Karl Marx is my eyes is just a realistic poor german old man. China now is really not like real marxism or 共产主义. I just think Sweden or Norway is more like 共产主义。 China here is out and out capitalist.

Just a excuse for revolution.

For us, we only hear from one side.

[chenpv]

In any case, if a teacher was taught to teach Lu Xun based on orthodox Commie propaganda when he or she started teaching in, say, 1983, he or she might very well likely teach using the same orthodoxy until he or she retires in 2020 or so.

It is not the case like you said. What teachers have to preach are directed in a Teacher's Book accompanying the textbooks we use. There writes everything ranging from stuff that can be ignored (as said, materials for self-study) to stuff that is pith in the piths of teaching (as said, important points). And information in this manual is always updated through some way that I don't know. Luckily,as Reisen said, not every teacher buys this crap. They are just willing to make a lot of side notes during teaching, but as well warn their students not going too far in exams.

[wushijiao]

It is not the case like you said

I hope so! (I'm just saying what it was like for my wife who was a student in the system not too long ago).

I read a book about Shanghai a few years back. The author loved Lu Xun because she said that no matter what happened in Shanghai or China in the 1920's or 30's, Lu Xun was an honest observer who gave deep insight into what was happening in society.

Therefore, It seems that the best way to teach about his writings would be to re-create the situation, analyze his writings, and then ask for student opinion and the like. What do you think about his opinion on this or that? Was he right about this? What would you have said then? How does that relate to today's society? How did Lu Xun express himslef?

It seems that some Chinese students had a strong distaste of Lu Xun, based on the way he was taught. But then many seem to have re-evaluated his ideas after their own reflection.

By the way, here is a large part of a piece in the New York Times from 1990 about Lu Xun, written by Nicolas Kristof after the massacre in 1989. I think it shows the reason why, as gato said, they might be trying to down play Lu Xun:

"''If China is not to perish, then as history tells us, the future holds a tremendous surprise for the murderers. This is not the conclusion of an incident, but a new beginning. Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. Blood debts must be repaid in kind: the longer the delay, the greater the interest.

''If China is not to perish, then as history tells us, the future holds a tremendous surprise for the murderers. This is not the conclusion of an incident, but a new beginning. Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. Blood debts must be repaid in kind: the longer the delay, the greater the interest.'' -Lu Xun

This is a depressing and chilling time for most Chinese writers, a period when they dare not challenge the Government and must resignedly leave their best manuscripts in their desk drawers. But Lu Xun, widely regarded as the greatest Chinese writer of this century, is as untamed as ever, and his essays continue to be circulated openly. When the Government fired on crowds of protesters last summer and then launched a propaganda campaign to amend history, it was Lu Xun's statement quoted above that became the anthem of the opposition. Of course, there is a good reason why Lu Xun is not in jail: he has been dead for more than half a century.

Lu Xun wrote those words on March 18, 1926, hours after Beijing security forces fired on a crowd of student protesters, killing more than 40 of them. That incident has been largely forgotten today, but there are haunting parallels to the violence of June 4, 1989. Immediately after the 1926 incident, the authorities denounced the ''rioters,'' and after a while some people wondered aloud if perhaps the students had not been foolish to confront the Government so openly. Lu Xun called such suggestions one of the most frightening aspects of the violence. ''If that is the case,'' he said, ''then we Chinese are destined to perish wretchedly unless we are willing to be slaves 'without a murmur.' ''

Such statements, and many others even more incendiary, can be found in the collected works of Lu Xun in any Chinese bookstore. The authorities could, of course, ban his works, but that would be extraordinarily embarrassing.

Perry Link, a China scholar at Princeton University, remembers that when he lived in China in 1979 and 1980, he was struck by how bitter some intellectuals were toward Lu Xun. They resented that after his death Lu Xun had been held up as a model, while in some cases his words were twisted by Red Guards to justify persecuting others. ''Lu Xun suffered considerably because Mao apotheosized him and used him as a justification for brutalizing intellectuals during the Cultural Revolution,'' Mr. Link said.

One of China's promising young writers, Zha Jianying, who moved a year ago to the United States, said that it was only in the last few years that many people in her generation came to understand more fully the relevance of Lu Xun to contemporary China. ''After China opened up, some of us were tired of being forced to read Lu Xun and tired of the fact that he was the writer liked by Mao,'' Ms. Zha said. ''Then, just in the last few years, people started reading him again and realized that the real Lu Xun probably would have been very disillusioned with what happened after 1949, and that he wouldn't have stood a chance.''

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0CEED6113EF93AA2575BC0A966958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=1

(sorry for the long quote)

Again, I really don't know enough about this debate to side either way.

[gato]

This reform of Chinese textbook in Beijing, I think, is driven by the same motivation as the aborted attempt to reform history textbooks in Shanghai last year.

See these articles:

http://news.xinhuanet.com/book/2006-09/06/content_5056547.htm

上海新版历史教科书弱化革命和战争

2006年09月06日 14:32:54 　来源：青年参考

该新版历史课本将重心放在常见于中国媒体和官方话语的思想和术语上：经济增长、创新、外贸、政治稳定、尊重文化多样性和和谐社会。

上海大学历史学家朱学勤说：“以前的历史课本重视意识形态和国家认同。新的历史课本较少意识形态的内容，与当前的政治目标相一致。”

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/12-horse-horse-tiger-tiger-slang-and-idioms849

Like Japan, China is starting to revise its History textbook for High School students (at least in Shanghai):

http://theseoultimes.com/ST/?url=/ST...d.php?idx=3966

(1) Mao is only mentioned once -- as an example to show why flag should be lowered at half mast;

(2) Bill Gates, NYSE, J.P. Morgan and Bullet Train received special coverage;

(3) A chapter on the origin of necktie;

(4) Qin Shihuang had not killed the Confucian scholars and burnt the books;

(5) Wen Tianxiang --- huh...Who was he???

The new history textbook was eventually cancelled due to criticisms, apparently mostly from the left.

But as the supporters of the new textbooks stated, reducing the emphasis on revolution and politics in the history book is consistent with the focus on "harmonious society" and economic development under the current government.

"Ah Q," removed in Beijing, is one of the more political of Lu Xun's stories. It satirizes those who use the banner of revolution for their own selfish purposes and those who blindly follow. In the early 1980s, the story was adapted in China into a very popular movie. At that time, one could see it as a metaphor for the craziness in Cultural Revolution under Mao. But today, if one were to read "Ah Q" as a metaphor, it wouldn't look so good for the government.

You can see this general trend in the media, which is tightly regulated by the government (a new regulation recently killed shows like the Supergirl singing contest, for example). On TV, most shows are either entertainment or about business. Politics is mostly absent, except to mark historical events like the battles against the Japanese. You still see current politics discussed in newspapers and magazines, but they are usually targeted towards highly educated readers. The trend seems to be to keep regular folks from thinking about politics. And though it's unclear what's cause and what's effect, most people in China don't care about politics today. Young people in China, in particular, are much more apolitical than young people are in the West.

[reisen]

http://www.gdjiaoyu.com.cn/Page/Info/infoShowDetail.aspx?infoid=3175

here's a link about 高中语文<纪念刘和珍君>， i don' t think is much wrong.

[gato]

http://www.gdjiaoyu.com.cn/Page/Info...px?infoid=3175

here's a link about 高中语文<纪念刘和珍君>， i don' t think is much wrong.

See this article:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20051217/news_1n17china.html

Chinese pass censors, discuss deaths on Web

By Philip P. Pan, THE WASHINGTON POST

December 17, 2005

HONG KONG – At first glance, it looked like a spirited online discussion about an essay written 80 years ago by modern China's greatest author. But then again, the exchange on a popular Chinese bulletin board site seemed a bit emotional given the subject.

Lu Hsun's "In Memory of Ms. Liu Hezhen," which he wrote in 1926....

[studentyoung]

Yeah, I guess you can't say Lu Xun's a bad writer on the exam, for example, that he's melodramatic, too pessimistic, or a bit repetitive. Are you allowed to say Lu Xun is too 消极?

Well, I don’t think Lu Xun was pessimistic or passive. In fact, he knew the frailties of Chinese people's human nature (他对中国人人性的弱点了如指掌) inside out and expressed them in his works appropriately and vividly, so even nowadays most Chinese scholars still confess that no other Chinese writers in his days could reach to his level.

I read a book about Shanghai a few years back. The author loved Lu Xun because she said that no matter what happened in Shanghai or China in the 1920's or 30's, Lu Xun was an honest observer who gave deep insight into what was happening in society.

Right!

I think Lu Xun's works are "realistic".

Thanks!

[reisen]

really agree with studentyoung

but his work itself is passive. And in the exam we must say he is a “伟大的无产阶级革命家”， but it's not true. I think.

[gato]

Well, I don’t think Lu Xun was pessimistic or passive.

I was using 消极 to mean "negative" (负面), not "passive" (被动). Did I get it wrong?

I don't think it can be argued that Lu Xun was not pessimistic. Yes, he focused on "frailties of Chinese people's human nature" and devoted little space to the positive aspects of Chinese life. That's what makes him pessimistic, unless you are arguing that there were no positive aspects to Chinese life. Yet, there were other authors who lived around the same time as Lu Xun who were more even-handed in their depiction of Chinese life -- Lao She, for example.