There must be an 'easy' systematic method of learning to read and write Mandarin?

[Chinese Learner]

Hi,

I've just started teaching myself Mandarin before I go there next year.

I've been trawling then net and bookshops looking for a systematic logical method to learn to read and write Mandarin - is there. The closest I have come is:

Cracking the Chinese Puzzles: Primer and Singletons

by T. K. Ann (Author)

a book I came across in a bookshop and some kids videos:

edit: link removed

that talks about a system devised by BaiShuangfa? Anyone heard of this person - I can't find details about him on the net - maybe I'm not spelling his name properly?

Anyone have any ideas about an 'easy system' that I can find in any medium i.e. book, CD-ROM or DVD to learn how to read and write?

If I had the money I would buy the kids videos!

Thanks!!

[Chinese Learner]

I presume you are not allowed to put links on this forum?

[myrhlyn]

it is boubtful you will learn to read and write much mandarin in one year. however here are three books to assist you to read pinyin, pronounce the four tones, and english way to prononce the words.

1) chinese in 10 minutes a day, author kershul, bilingual books inc. isbn-13: 978-0-944502-10-5 800 488 5068

2) chinese in plain english, boyle lafayette de mente, mcgraw-hill, isbn-13: 978-0-8442-8481-1

3) the everything speaking mandarin chinese book, john-francis grasso, adams media, isbn-13: 978-1-59337-723-6

also when you arrive china go to the retain electronics area and spend the apx. $300USD to buy a pocket translator that will translate both english and mandarin. it will be the most useful money you will spend.

china is better away from the major cities along the coast. you will rarely not find someone who wants to practice their english. remember to be slow and patient. the two languages are not compatible.

good luck and enjoy.

[kmmorr]

There's no "easy" way to learn Chinese characters, unless you have a photographic memory, or just, I guess, a really really really good memory.

While there is nothing particularly difficult about learning an individual character, there are, you know, thousands of them. The main issue with learning characters then is not the ease with which you learn them, but the time which you need to spend in order to learn all the necessary ones.

Devoting a certain amount of time everyday to studying (using both flashcards and repetitive writing by hand) is the only real, tried-and-true way to learn hanzi. I'd suggest using a flashcard program like mnemosyne. You can also buy this book, which has all the most commonly used characters. Just make sure you get either the simplified or traditional character edition, depending on where you plan on going.

Also, generally speaking, I wouldn't trust anything, anywhere, that suggests it provides an easy path to learning hanzi or, for that matter Chinese (or, for that matter, any language).

[imron]

I presume you are not allowed to put links on this forum?

Links from new members, especially in their first post, and especially to sites promoting/selling systems for learning Chinese are treated with suspicion, and usually removed. Once a member has made several posts and admin can see that they're not just a sock-puppet, links are no problem (remembering of course that disclosure is recommended if you link to a website/product you are associated with).

[Chinese Learner]

Hi,

I know that it will take a long time but what I mean is:

Is there a 'method' that teaches the reason why characters are constructed the way they are and therefore makes it more efficient to learn to read and write.

In other words rather than learning characters in a random manner is there a 'logical system' behind why characters are written the way they are? And to learning?

The book I came across in the bookshop: 'Cracking the Chinese Puzzles: Primer and Singletons by T. K. Ann' stated that there was a 'logic' behind why characters were written the way they were therefore the book was saying it had a more efficient method to learn how to read and write.

I'm not looking for miracles as I know it takes a long time (7-10 years I've been told) but I am just trying to see if there is a 'method' as opposed to just having to collect characters one by one.

[Chinese Learner]

Is there any particular brand of '$300USD pocket translator' you would recommend?

Do you mean a talking translator or do you mean a Palm Pilot or such like?

Thanks

[myrhlyn]

i bought the "besta" model S703-uses the oxfordking of translation-has the key board as well as touch screen, and write tool so others can write characters on screen. it is an mazing little machine and is internet capable, comes with white plastic hard case and cloth soft cover-paid just under $300 USD

[CheukMo]

I have two books that I think will help you with learning characters and their "logic". The logic is based on what are called "radicals" which are the base (or bases) of characters and words.

The first one is: Read and Write Chinese: ISBN 0-941340-11-2. It deals with single characters and their radicals.

The second one is: Understanding Chinese: ISBN 0-941340-10-4. It deals with characters and how they are combined to make words.

It has both Mandarin PinYin romanization and Cantonese Yale romanization to help you to pronounce them. I'm learning, or trying to learn, Cantonese which is much less rational and logical than Mandarin. I would say they would help a great deal with Mandarin. However, I would buy the "Chinese in 10 minutes a day" as suggested by myrhlyn to get a basic grasp before I bought any other materials. Just to "get my feet wet" so to speak

Good luck!

卓武

[simonlaing]

Hi Learner,

It seemed from your title you were looking for tools to learn how to write CHinese. And in my experience write chinese means write characters which normal chinese people use not the pinyin that learners use solely for pronunciation purposes.

Most characters have two parts , one part is usually the sound part that other the meaning. Then in addition these parts and others in the characters are radicals. (You could think of them as letters, there are about 150-200 radicals that make up almost all characters. And of those 50 are very, very common.

There are a couple of books that teach using this radical method.

The most popular is the New Practical Chinese Reader . It has 4 levels but just the first 2 use radicals in teaching the writing. It the one used in most Universities in the US I think.

http://www.chinesetutor.net/Books/BKXinshiyonghanyukeben1.html

Another one that is also good, but harder to find is the "A key to Chinese spech and Writing"

By the french guy bellassen. He uses the radical method much more.

http://www.chinesetutor.net/Books/BkAkeytochinesespeechandwriting.html

If you're in China these books should be easy to find in the local foreign language book store. If you're abroad you might have to look around more.

These links you can buy the books, but don't as Amazon.com will have them cheaper and have shorter shipping time as you won't be shipping from China. (Fair notice I run the website, but get all my revenue from the Tutoring side of the website. I don't make much money on the books, but think they are useful in teaching and learning. )

There are a few other books around, that occasionally talk about it Urban Chinese is one. Most Chinese simpliy write the characters out 50 at a time because they are at such a young age that is the way they learn. Most people use this rote method but I prefer learn the radiacals and learn the characters as 3 radicals instead of 8 strokes (8 lines).

Good luck,

Simon:)

P.S. A friend told me a good saying about learning Chinese. Learning Chinese is a 5 year lesson in patience. After 5 years you haven't quite learned Chinese, but you sure have learned patience. (It only takes 3 years to get to a decent level so don't be worried)

[kmmorr]

Hi Chinese Learner, sorry for misinterpreting your question.

I would agree with pretty much everything simonliang and CheukMo said. Memorization of the radicals is probably the best foundation to begin with, especially for writing.

[rob07]

I used and liked Teach Yourself Beginners Chinese Script by Elizabeth Scurfield and Song Lianyi. I thought it did a reasonable job of explaining how characters are constructed. There are 10 or so (mixed) reviews on Amazon.

[Jenny311]

I'm a Mandarin teacher. I am sure there are ways to help learning. It have taken me two year to learn methods of how to teach Mandrin as a second language. Sorry it's not easy to introduce those methods just in several sentences.

This maybe a solution: find a professional teacher. By "professional teacher", what I mean is not just any teacher that has majored in Mandarin and taught Mandarin to Chinese students, but those who have learnt the discipline of "teaching Mandarin as a second language".

I'm sure there is big difference, because I've transform myself from the former to the latter.

[johnmck]

While most Chinese people will tell you that there is no logic behind the strokes of characters, the strokes are not random so there is clearly a logic behind them. The difference is Chinese people learn them when they are children by simply by recognising them, while adult learns try to learn them by "understanding" them.

While there is no "code" that will allow you to understand a character the first time you see it, there is a logic behind the character that will help you to remember it. Some of the characters are based on pictograms and some are based on phonetics (originate from another character simply because it sounds like it).

I recommend that you look at the site www.zhongwen.com , I use this site every time I have a new character to learn. It gives you an explanation behind the design of every character. It is based on traditional characters so if you are looking for a simplified character it is not always straightforward, but if you want to understand the logic behind a simplified character you have to first understand the reason for the tradition character anyway. After learning several hundred simplified characters you will find that you are able to spot the "logic" behind most of simplificatoins and are able to quickly spot the correct traditional character.

[Jenny311]

0.先死记硬背一些常用汉字（比如字频在前100的）

一周之内写会

然后

1.照着这100个汉字，详细说明汉字结构（上下，左右，包围）和基本笔画和笔顺。简单说说 偏旁部首（举例可在这100字中，选取构字能力强的偏旁，如讠，氵，扌）等。（一周时间左右）

2.然后再教一些简单的独体字（这些独体字应当是构成其他汉字常见的部件）（一周时间左右）

3.之后再利用这些独体字和1中的介绍的构字能力强的偏旁，结合在一起生成更多汉字（合体字）（2周时间左右）

4.下面就是同步扩充A汉字偏旁，B独体字和一些部件C合体字的阶段。这个阶段要长一些，相互补充印证。直到把字频在前500的汉字都学会。（3周）

5.下面是字频在后500的字的教学，方法类似0，要求死记硬背。但这时候学生有了第一轮次的感性和理性认识了，学习速度会加快的。（2周）

6.进行完前面所有阶段了。（大约8周时间），学生掌握了HSK汉字等级前1000个汉字了。看楼主描述的汉语水平，也差不多够用了,楼主也可以交差了。

7.后续的工作：如果楼主想再为学生打好以后学汉字的基础的话，可以再次在这1000汉字的范围内，以这些字举例（同时也是复习）进一步深化 复合笔画，次常见部首，笔顺的教学。另外，从语义上，也可以进行汉字的解释：如，同偏旁的字的意思有相关说明汉字是表义的，汉字大部分是形声字，又表声又表义，汉字还有一部分好玩的象形字和会意字等等。这样做，就能初步构建起学生对汉字的认识和兴趣，为其以后自学打个好基础。

[LawrenceT]

Having Chinese parents helps Of course then it's just a matter of finding an 'easy' systematic method of learning English!

Jokes aside though I think that any language takes time, patience and practice to learn. I'm new to Mandarin but have found that the fastest (and not necessarily 'easiest') way to gain proficiency in a new language is through in-country learning combined with family home-stay programs.

There is no magic bullet though and like anything in life you get out what you put in. My advice is to put aside the notion of looking for an 'easy' method and just find a method that works for you. Then dive right in!

Good Luck.

[HerrPetersen]

I am an advocat of Heisig's book

If you study it full time you should be able to complete it in 4 weeks or so. Then you can associate the 1500 hanzi in the book to an unique keyword (but you won't be able to pronounce them).

After that you could use iKnow's great study resources to actually learn how to read stuff.

Using the SRS software anki together with the import iKnow-feature (which also imports the audio) - be sure to also import the example sentences - is highly recommended.

The first 5 lists should be doable in two or so month (again, if you put lots of time in it).

With 1500 Hanzi under your belt, you are already pretty good on your way. Since you have one year you should be able to scratch on the 3000 Hanzi line (if you have lots of freetime) by the end of the year.

[querido]

I understand your desire for a system. I am an extremist, and I sought a system too, thinking I would master the subject by force.

The book I came across in the bookshop: 'Cracking the Chinese Puzzles: Primer and Singletons by T. K. Ann' stated that there was a 'logic' behind why characters were written the way they were therefore the book was saying it had a more efficient method to learn how to read and write.

Yes, there is a lot in this book of great value. I own it. But, I admit I don't have the necessary awesome dedication I thought I had for this approach. You might. They are great books.

Learning how to "read and write" involves something a lot deeper and more subtle than what you get by learning only characters. After a phase of my initial radical, characters-only approach to Chinese, it became obvious that I couldn't use them, as language. I had intellectual data that was still far removed from usable language.

To me, the benefit of learning a character *in context* (along with a whole sentence) has proven to be *essential*. I can measure this with my flashcard program: I wanted to stick to whole-sentence flashcards only, but my chosen text includes some isolated words, and I decided to make flashcards of these too. Over time, it has become obvious that these make up most of my troublesome cards. In fact, either I've lost my mind, or I'm going to have to make up sentences for some of these words!

rather than learning characters in a random manner

as opposed to just having to collect characters one by one.

The best escape from randomness and one-by-one collection, for me so far, is whole-sentence flashcards (with audio). Use one of the recommended textbooks as a source.

If your goal is more restricted (because you want to get something done in one year) then maybe a tourist-phrase book would be a good source of sentences. I can't name one to recommend. Another book I like is "Conversational Chinese 301". It is built around only 301 sentences. It has audio and (optional) DVDs with subtitles. You might be able to absorb the whole thing in a year.

By the way, my chosen text (which I wouldn't recommend for most adults) is now the New Concept Chinese for Children series. So you see this is a lesson in patience, and also humility. Good luck.

Edited February 20, 2009 at 12:59 AM by querido