Nation, Country & State

[Altair]

How does 邦 fit in with the themes discussed above?

I vaguely remember a classical quote that goes something like "bang1 you3 dao4, pin2 qie3 jian4 yan1, chi3 ye3. Bang1 wu2 dao4 fu4 qie3 gui4 yan1, chi3 ye3." ("If a land has [the] Dao, it is shameful to be poor and lowly therein. If a land has not [the] Dao, it is shameful to be rich and honored therein.") What does "bang4" mean in this quote and the many other references to "bang" in the Dao De Jing and other classical works?

I would appreciate if someone could also input the correct characters for the quote and save me from cutting and pasting my life away.

Also, what does "中國" mean exactly and how old is the term? Is this what the Zhou kings claimed to rule? If so, how does the term relate to Qi2 guo2, Qin2 guo2, etc.? When did the term come into use? Could it originally have been plural in reference, meaning "the countries in the center of the earth"? Was 國 applied only to countries ruled by kings, or did it include tribally based regions?

By the way, my understanding is that Qin Shi Huangdi assumed the title "huang2 di4," because it had never existed before, because it implied rejection of the Zhou kingship system, and because it implied unique divinity along the lines of Shang4 Di4.

European nation states are of very recent origin, maybe starting with Napolean as "Emperor of the French," as opposed to "of France." The Romans claimed to rule by right of conquest, not on behalf of any divine mandate. The acted from the premise that supreme sovereignty rested at the level of the city, (hence, "civil" society and "citizenship"). This structure was superimposed on family, clan, and tribal authority, which all gradually weakened in importance. Sovereignty did not correspond to language or ethnic groups. Even in Europe today, there are very few national boundaries that correspond well to traditional notions of ethnic groups or even language groupings. The national identities are based on shared historical circumstances that often derive from the fortunes of specific families.

PS. I just realized I messed up some of the tones above and hopefully have now corrected them.

[nnt]

The citation was from Confucius (the real one )

http://www.guoxue.com/jinbu/13jing/lunyu/ly_008.htm

子曰：“笃信好学，守死善道。危邦不入，乱邦不居。天下有道则见，无道则隐。

邦有道，贫且贱焉，耻也；邦无道，富且贵焉，耻也。”

About the notions of 中原 , 国 , 天下 this link gives a good summary:

http://www.chnmus.net/exhibition/temporary/twozhous/twozhous012-001-001.htm

"The world", 天下 (btw see the citation from Confucius above), was and is composed of 国 (which has evolved from the tribes in the origins to the feudal "states" under the Zhou, and Zhou was no more than a 国 itself )

About the origins of 皇帝 as "emperor", see here:

http://chinese.pku.edu.cn/david/HTMLSHI/006.html

In Europe, the concept of "nation/state" was linked with the king (cf the famous: "L'Etat, c'est moi", "I am the State" attributed to Louis 14th).

It was the French Revolution which unbound the link nation=king by beheading their king, and replacing the "king-sovereign" by the "nation-sovereign".

Nationalism (the sentiment, not the word which appeared at the end of the 19th century) in Europe dates back to the years 1400 (cf the story of Joan of Arc and England vs France at that time).