Studying Engineering in China; Minimal Language Preparation

[tong_xin]

Hi! I just completed an 8-week immersion program in Beijing (CET language program) with no previous language experience. It has become a goal of mine to study at a Chinese University for a semester: the catch? I can't afford to give up a semester of studying my major (Computer Engineering). So this gives me three questions:

1.) Many schools appear to want an HSK band 6 score: realistically speaking, how likely is it that with intense language instruction, a private tutor, and regular chats with my Chinese friends that I could reach that level one year from now, considering that I have only had the equivalent of one year of college Chinese?

2.) Does anyone here have experience with studying abroad for a semester, not at a language program, but with a direct enroll? More specifically, I'm looking at Tsinghua University in Beijing. Has anyone had interactions with them?

3.) Can anyone suggest strategies that might allow me to improve more quickly, or resources that are good quality?

I just took an ACTFL test, but I haven't received my results yet, and that's only oral anyway, so I'm not sure how helpful that is.

Thank you all so much!!

佟欣

[outcast]

Actually that's only for liberal arts majors. For science, math, and engineering the minimum is band 3 (except qinghua which is band 4).

But seriously, the better your chinese is the easier the courses will be. All of the explainations for everything is in chinese, and also engineering has many special words for things (in any language) you really should learn well.

Here's a question you should also ask yourself: How much does it cost and how am I going to pay for it?

[heifeng]

Another question to add to your list: Is your home institution even going to allow transfer credit from a Chinese university? If it doesn't allow the credit, then it's the same as taking a semester off since you are going to have to retake everything...Secondly, if they DO allow it they may make you enroll through them and pay ther tuition as opposed you just paying the price of being a visiting scholar at Tsinghua or something...you should talk to your school more about this.

[Another general question, is an ACTFL certificate even useful in China? ...or even 'that' useful in the US for that matter. I think mine is in a pile collecting dust right alongside my HSK results. ]

[yonglin]

I think that getting a 6 is definitely feasible. I got a high 5 (254) on my HSK this summer, having studied Chinese for one year and with doing about 2 hrs of HSK preparation (basically, opening my boyfriend's HSK prep book and doing a listening section to realise that I'd actually had to listen to something similar to broadcast). I took a beginner's 8-week course at UIR last summer (of which I attended for 7 and travelled for 1). I then studied second-year Chinese as an elective at a Canadian University (4 hrs per week) for two semesters, and did the test after about 3 weeks of additional study as 进修生 at a Chinese university. However, since you've been doing one of those CET courses which seem to be about the best there is out there (according to people on these forums), I'm sure you already have a head start.

However, as someone said already: it is doubtful whether you'll formally need more than a 3-4 to study undergraduate engineering, and it is equally doubtful whether getting even a 6-7 will actually give you the practical language capability to manage. Personally I can't imagine how you could manage a university degree with a 3 on the HSK: maybe they count on it being a "float-or-swim" thing: that everyone will mess up their first year but that that would be sufficient for people to learn enough to manage year 2-4...? Personally, I think it's purely so that they can enroll as many foreign (Pakistani, Afghani, ……) students in med school as possible, with the tuition fee revenues entailed.

If I'm not mistaken, the prestigous (北大、清华、复旦) universities do require foreign students to take an entrance exam if they want to enter the university as undergraduate students. Maybe this requirement is waived for visiting students to maximise revenues...?! Worth looking up?!

I studied on exchange at Queen's in Canada for a year, and they do exchange programs to Fudan for Queen's degree students. Those who speak and read Mandarin take classes in Chinese for credits (there are loads of Canadian Chinese at Queen's). However, I think the process might be a fair bit more difficult if your American college does not have an exchange program with a Chinese university.

Even if your university does allow credit transfer you may want to think about the (1) tuition fee issue, and (2) whether it will screw up your GPA: you probably won't be doing brilliantly over there - where you'll have an advantage over Chinese students (verbal, critical-thinking stuff), your lack of Chinese proficiency will dumb you down; and - believe me - you will not have an advantage in things like maths/quantitative stuff.

Anyway, it would be an extremely cool think to do. Good Luck!

[gato]

Even if your university does allow credit transfer you may want to think about the (1) tuition fee issue, and (2) whether it will screw up your GPA: you probably won't be doing brilliantly over there - where you'll have an advantage over Chinese students (verbal, critical-thinking stuff), your lack of Chinese proficiency will dumb you down; and - believe me - you will not have an advantage in things like maths/quantitative stuff.

Many Qinghua students were the best students in math and sciences from their home province or metropolitan area. Some Chinese provinces have 100 million people. The average student there is probably better at math than the average student at MIT or CalTech. If grades were important, I'd be a bit hesitant to do this for credit. Maybe just for fun.

[tong_xin]

Thank you all so much for your help!

I'm going to start talking to my university now - I'm at the George Washington University, which is lucky because they have an international affairs focus and always want us (engineers) to study abroad, so I'm hoping they'll be a little more liberal. Not to mention Tsinghua (Qinghua) is pretty much the MIT of China, so it seems like if they would accept any credit, it would be from there. Plus the grades we get abroad don't factor into our GPAs.

The pricing is a good point: I didn't think about my uni being inclined to require me to pay tuition...I'm hoping for another scholarship (I had a Boren to get out to China last summer, and I'm allowed to apply again...) does anyone know anything about the Chinese government scholarship? I looked through the website, but I'm curious if anyone knows how hard they are to get?

As for the language level...I have had one similar experience: I went to high school in Germany for a year after graduating. Granted, I had had 5 years of German lessons before then, but I almost feel like this summer program in China matched my admittedly poor high school language instruction. Does anyone know of a program that gives vocational lessons (ie - Chinese for engineers)? Otherwise, I guess I may try to find a tutor.

Finally, is there any other input on the kind of HSK score you can expect after certain lengths of study? I'm trying to get calibrated on what is possible to achieve, and I'm afraid Yong Lin may just be extra-intelligent/motivated. ;)

(btw, Hei Feng - I also think the ACTFL is a load of junk...I'm just hoping it will help convince my uni that "I've learned WAY more than two semesters in one summer, so PLEASE don't make me start in Chinese 001"...the Chinese language department is WAY less liberal than the engineering school.)

[zerolife]

I have been in Tsinghua for my freshman year, one semester (actually 6 months program) with Syracuse DIPA and the rest direct enrollment in the language program.

As you've said, Tsinghua is not the average university and those kids there, especially the ones in engineering are the smartest you'll find on Earth (maybe comparable to Oxford students). I consider myself near fluent in Chinese speaking (can't say that for reading) so I audited a few regular Tsinghua classes just for fun. Believe me, the work load you will get at Tsinghua will be like double what you would get from a competitive US college.

One of my American friend who is majoring in Civil Engineering took a few Tsinghua engineering courses for a month but had to drop them due to the work load. Yes, she is fluent in Chinese (both speaking and reading) and very smart. I know some of her professors allowed her to use alternative books in English and/or take the test in English so that's something you might be able to do too.

btw I'm at GW too. I'm going to get started on my first full time semester on campus tomorrow. If you want, we can meet up to learn Chinese and talk more about studying in China. I'm planning to go back to China or to Japan for another semester next year.

As far as I know, you have to pay GW tuition for any kind of study abroad program or direct enrollment if you want to have the credit tranferred. In addition, GW does not have any direct enrollment agreements with any universities in mainland China so I'm not sure if they will allow you to go to Tsinghua. Let me know if I'm wrong about that, I'm planning to pay a visit to the study abroad office and get more details.

However, I know that Syracuse University DIPA is partnered with GW and their Beijing center does offer direct enrollment into Tsinghua through the center. You'll be able to take any of the regular Tsinghua courses for credits. The SU Beijing Center has a special agreement with Tsinghua. You would have to pay Syracuse tuition and program fee or in your case, GW tuition due to the GW study abroad rules. I believe Syracuse will need some kind of proof of your Chinese proficency for the direct enrollment option but you do not need to have a HSK score.

I know the Syracuse Beijing program isn't very well known (yet) but I believe it is one of the best study abroad program in Beijing, especially with it's option for a direct enrollment into Tsinghua. Yes, it is expensive but offers pre-semester field trip and pre-semester intensive chinese classes (both for credits). During the semester, beside enrollment into the Tsinghua Chinese language program with 20 hours of Chinese lessons a week, you can select an additional 6-9 credits from a wide range of courses taught in English by Tsinghua professors and the program director or take regular Tsinghua classes through the direct enrollment option.