Dagerous electrical wiring

[Rincewind]

Recently one of the electrical switches in my house stopped working (the switch stuck in the on position.) I decided to replace the socket. Not a big job. However, when I took the old socket off and looked at the wiring behind I got a surprise. There's no earth wire! None of the appliances in my house are earthed! Also the neutral wire was not screwed in properly and had been sparking. There was visible charring of the plastic around the wire. I could very easily have had a fire in the house!

This is the third house I've had in china. The other two were older and less well maintained so I wasn't surprised that the wiring was generally poor. But this house is new(er) and had been redecorated recently with modern fittings and fixtures. It seems to be a common theme here that the electrics are bodged. I wonder about other peoples experiences with the electrics here. Have you had any problems? What suggestions can people give to rectify any problems?

[Nathan]

Well, thank you for informing us... I can sleep well knowing that my apartment may burn down at any given moment...

As for a solution? No I don't think there is one. You could try to argue with your landlord, maybe inform an insurance bureau or something, but both options are not likely to work here in China. Just pray that you are never awakened to hellish smoke and heat emanating from a wall of flame that could soon engulf your life...

[Xiao Kui]

I think not grounding the circuits is perhaps common in developing countries. I was told while in Argentina that my surge protector was useless because the wiring wasn't grounded anyway. I actually have no idea what that means, but I do know I've experienced 4 small electrical fires while in China. They were more like electrical melts and smokes because fortunately there were no flames. I recommend unplugging stuff if you go on a long trip and definitely not overloading power strips.

[Lugubert]

I have lived for 64 years in supposedly technically advanced Sweden, and have so far had no house or apartment where all outlets were grounded. Recently, I found that a computer motherboard component had failed, probly because of a thunderstorm overcurrent. That's my very first failure because of overloads of any electronic piece of equipment since I acquired my first computer in, I think, 1976. Now, I'm pushing my landlady = younger sister to install a surge protector where the mains enter the house. Do take precautions, because I think that our systems have more built in safety devices than most other countries. As mentioned, efficient and sufficiently fast surge protectors need grounded outlets.

[Rincewind]

The vast majority of surge protectors do work by dumping the excess onto the ground wire. If you have no ground, then you can't dump the power so there is no surge protection. There is a form of surge protector that uses a different setup involving capacitors that store up the surge and then release it gradually. These don't require a ground in order to work and so are probably a better option for most of us. One such device I found here http://brickwall.com/howwork.htm

Lugubert, you are right that some sockets will not have a ground. Usually such sockets only have 2 pin holes for fitting 2 pin plugs and cannot accept 3 pin plugs. Devices with 2 pin plugs (such as my computer printer and modem) are double insulated with plastic casing so they don't need grounded. Usually (but not always) devices sold with 3 pin plugs do need grounded. There is usually a badge on the underside near the power input that tells you if the device needs a ground or not.

I actually only have 2 devices that must be grounded. My fridge/freezer and my electric oven. Both of these are on the same socket in the kitchen. I could always add my own ground by wiring them to the water pipe.

[Lugubert]

[quiote=Rincewind]The vast majority of surge protectors do work by dumping the excess onto the ground wire. If you have no ground, then you can't dump the power so there is no surge protection.

Matches my understanding.

There is a form of surge protector that uses a different setup involving capacitors that store up the surge and then release it gradually. These don't require a ground in order to work and so are probably a better option for most of us.

Hoped so, but haven't found any so far.

Lugubert, you are right that some sockets will not have a ground. Usually such sockets only have 2 pin holes for fitting 2 pin plugs and cannot accept 3 pin plugs.

In Sweden, it's more or less the other way around: Any outlet will accept 2-pin plugs. 3 pin plugs, like US style, Brit layouts or even the Belgian mode (with a pin for ground) won't work anywhere at all here. Out grounded receptacles will only accept grounded plugs or the slim plugs from double insulated devices like lamps, shavers or some household appliances.

I actually only have 2 devices that must be grounded. My fridge/freezer and my electric oven. Both of these are on the same socket in the kitchen. I could always add my own ground by wiring them to the water pipe.

I'm convinced that the water pipe method would be as illegal as unsafe here. My fridge/freezer and cooker and the bathroom lights are on properly grounded outlets. The computers and peripherals aren't. I'm slightly anxious before the autumn thunderstorms. I'm now hoping for the lead entrance thing to make the whole house safe®.

[Rincewind]

I'm convinced that the water pipe method would be as illegal as unsafe here.

Actually this used to be the standard way of grounding a house in the UK. The copper pipe made for a good ground. It is now not used in the UK due to the introduction of plastic pipes which obviously don't give a good ground.

[muyongshi]

Grounding out to a pipe is one of the most commonly used methods in the world and there is nothing unsafe about it. Grounds as a do not transfer a ton of electricity and even if they did a pipe runs and distributes the excessive over a large area and eventually into the ground (ever wonder where the terming grounding comes from ha ha). What would lead you to believe that it is dangerous?

[Rincewind]

One reason people think it's dangerous is because it has been outlawed (well in the UK anyway). If the pipes system is only part metal, but has mainly be replaced with plastic parts ergo not actually providing a ground, then in the event that an appliance develops a fault, there would be no ground. But worse, you kitchen sink would be live as well as the faulty appliance. If using a pipe as ground, you must check that the metal pipe really does run to ground and not. Water supply pipes are better than waste water pipes as the water inside the pipe will help were as a dry pipe is reliant only on the pipe.

Also, for quite obvious reasons, don't use a gas pipe as ground. Water pipes only.

[muyongshi]

Also, for quite obvious reasons, don't use a gas pipe as ground. Water pipes only.

Some things I just take for granted and that people will use common sense. Where has it been outlawed? I know it is still very common in the states (but hey I have been out of the country for a while) but we have very good quality pipes by code there. Chinese pipes are a bit more suspicious and I do agree with you that checking it out thoroughly with someone who knows the metals and how it is run would be a great idea. All the sewage pipes in my house (except sink drains) are actually plastic so that by logic is just out of the question.

[Rincewind]

Earthing to a pipe isn't outlawed exactly. However, in the United Kingdom, it's only a secondary earth. Another earth should be provided via the supplier or through installing a suitable, up to code, earthing spike in the ground near your house. The UK's British Standards Organisation has some of the strictest electrical codes in the world. Well certainly the best designed plugs at any rate.

As for gas. I found this PDF file which explains the BS code and it does have an earth to a gas pipe in the diagrams. Hmm. http://www.iee.org/Publish/WireRegs/WiringMatters/Documents/Issue16/2005_16_autumn_wiring_matters_earthing_your_questions_answered.pdf

[woliveri]

Precautions:

1, Pray

2. Smoke detectors

3. Fire Extinguisher

4. Strategically Place Important Documents

5. Pray

[lpascoe]

A couple of years ago there was a big fire in our apartment that completely burnt out 3 rooms and trashed the rest. Most of what wasn't damaged by heat, or smoke was drenched in water. It was electrical. Sparks from a power point zapped the sofa because my housemate left an electrical appliance plugged in, although it was turned off.

We were not at home. There were smoke detectors in every room of the apartment. But when you live on the 6th floor, it takes the firemen a while to get water into it. In fact, my housemate got a call from the guard downstairs asking her to come back because a smoke detector had gone off in our apartment and she got home in time to be doused in water then unlock the door to let the firemen in. Go figure. In Australia the door would have been axed and there is no way a civilian would have been first in line when the front door was opened. I saw the explosion from downstairs which I assume was the result of oxygen getting sucked into the apartment after she opened the door. She had to be thrown out of the way by the firefighter behind her because she tried to call for the dog from the front door.

Amazingly enough, my passport, degree, tax records and photos all survived. The papers were in plastic protectors in drawers. The fire didn't burnt through the drawers and the plastic protected the papers from the worst of the water (the water was shin-deep in my bedroom the next day, so you can imagine how much water was sprayed).

Photos got covered in soot and sprayed with water, but because they were in plastic sleeves in albums, they survived, with a bit of water damage. The computer and memory cards that also had photos stored on them did not survive the fire. In fact the computer was turned into an unrecognizable gloopy blob. Since then, I print all my photos, burn a CD which is hidden in a drawer and upload them onto a website. I figure I'd be pretty unlucky to lose all three copies! This might seem obvious to some, but it was only after the fire that I realised backups of important files are of no use if they are right next to the computer. Well not if there is a fire anyway.

The TV pretty much exploded, but funnily enough the大長今 and 冬季戀歌 DVDs that were next to it survived, although the plastic cases they were in were completely charred and melted. In fact I've watched them since. Same with CDs. All in boxes, all fine.

One thing one of the fire fighters told us afterwards was that a lot of fires similar to ours had occured after people had left their cell phones or batteries charging and either gone to sleep or left the house.

I guess it was pretty unlucky for this to have happened and I'm unlikely to have to go through another fire. I hope. Touch wood! Still, I've learnt a couple of things. Unplug religiously. If something is really, really important, put it in plastic, in a box at the back of a drawer or cupboard, low enough to escape the worst of the heat, high enough to escape the water. Sounds paranoid? My photos survived once, I'm not risking them again, that's all I can say! I've mentioned the photos a lot, but it is because I would have missed them the most had I lost them because of the memories they represent.

Finally, in Taiwan, if you are found to be responsible for a fire in an apartment building (eg, because you did not unplug an appliance) you can be taken to court by the government for creating a threat to public safety.