Hukou for mixed nationality families?

[msittig]

My (Chinese) wife and I are taking a short trip back to the US in October to introduce our newborn daughter to her paternal relatives. In getting an exit visa for the kid, we were asked to produce "her hukou book" among other documents. Since she's from out of town, we had her parents courier it to us. This got me wondering, at what point in their lives do Chinese people/families get their own hukou books (ie get a separate hukou book from their parents), and will my wife ever get her own? Is it when they get married? Should I be working on getting one for our family, or a "single-user" hukou for my wife?

I know this is probably a technicality that will never matter, but I like to play the legal game just to be "legit". If anybody has any input on this I'd appreciate it.

[shanghaikai]

Interesting question...and given that I haven't gotten married, much less to a Chinese gal, I'm extra curious about what nationality/citizenship your newborn daughter qualifies as. I've gotten conflicting information on this.

[roddy]

I think having the local hukou could, in the future, make a difference to the schools fees you pay, housing you can buy, etc, so it might be worth looking into. Certainly I know people spend significant amounts of money to get a Beijing one.

I can think of two people I know who've got their own hukou's in Beijing. One was a graduate employed by a fairly large SEO, the other had completed a graduate course abroad and returned to work in Beijing. The latter case also incurred a cost of about RMB 10,000. Buying a house I think also entitles you to a local hukou.

[mr.stinky]

buying the house: if one of the spouses is foreign, would the hukou apply? i believe

a foreigner who has resided in china for one year (work or study) may purchase one

residence for their own use. not aware of any limitations on location, other than have

a valid residence permit for the area.

buying a house won't necessarily change the hukou. my ex-gf from guangxi married a

local man in kunming, moved to his residence here, had a daughter, and divorced 10 years

later. afterwards, she bought an apartment here, opened a business, and raised her

daughter alone for 7 years. she does not qualify for a local hukou, even with the house,

business, and 17 years residing here.

her hukou is still in guangxi, so her daughter is not permitted to take the college exams

here. (apparently the testing standards here are pretty lax, so many people want their

children to test here, getting higher marks.) the result is that her daughter must return

to guangxi for the final year of high school so that she can take the exams there.

[msittig]

Just to clarify, I'm not looking to change my wife's hukou to our current residence (Shanghai), I think that process is pretty standardized and encoded in city law. What I'm interested in is, when can she be removed from her parents' hukou book. The purpose is so that we don't have to 快递 the physical book itself across several provinces each time we need to apply for some government service.

It's not a big deal, it's just for our convenience.

Oh, and to shanghaikai, technically children born to mixed marriages in China are automatically Chinese citizens but can switch to American (my nationality) at any time before the age of 18. If you want your child to have a hukou you have to 1) start the process early, applying for a 出生许可证 or something like that before your wife is even pregnant, for permission to have a child, and 2) plan on never having another Chinese kid: once the kid is registered in your hukou book, you fall under the jurisdiction of the one-child policy. We thought about it for a long time and ended up just choosing American citizenship for our daughter. Making her an American citizen was a simple matter of registering her birth at the American consulate as a ACBA (American Citizen Born Abroad). Luckily in Shanghai foreigners are plenty so the machine is well-oiled and everything went very smoothly. Even with a US passport in hand (have you seen the new ones? FAAANCY) my daughter has to get a 通行证 to leave the country, which is a document normally required of Chinese citizens. When we arrive back in China after our vacation, she will be sporting a tourist visa and treated henceforth as a 100% USA-ian.

[shanghaikai]

What would happen if the child was born between you and your Chinese wife abroad (the States or anywhere else but China)? Would the child still follow the same rules you outlined or would the child automatically take either's nationality?

To confirm, once you choose for your child to have American citizenship, you still actually need to get something like an exit-visa for her to leave the country?

[msittig]

I can't answer your first question, and wonder about that too. I'd assume China has something like "Chinese Citizen Born Abroad", but don't quote me on that.

Yes, once the child is born, even after she has her American passport she still needs to apply for a 通行证 "exit permit" at the Chinese Border Control office (aka the visa office on Minsheng Rd; in Shanghai, at least). I've heard people call it "exit visa" before but I don't think that's entirely correct because the application process finishes with a visit to the Chinese section of the Border Control bureau.

[shanghaikai]

Mustn't...let...our...people...get...away!!!

[csit]

For a child born abroad with one American and one Chinese parent, in the US, for example, the child is automatically a US citizen. I also assume that Chinese Citizen Born Abroad category, but I haven't looked into it.

For a child born to Chinese parents abroad, in the US, the US considers the child to be a US citizen. For the Chinese government, there seem to be two categories. For the child to travel to China, if one of both parents have US green card (or if they've become naturalized US citizens) then the child needs a visa in his/her US passport. If the parents do not have a green card, the child needs a "travel permit" to go to China.

Here's the information in English from the Chinese Consulate in Los Angeles. http://losangeles.china-consulate.org/eng/visa/chinavisa/t27599.htm

I saw one of these "travel permits" recently, and it reads like a passport. The child is a Chinese citizen, please allow them to travel, permit them the usual courtesies, etc. But it's not a Chinese passport: 1. It clearly says "travel permit" and 2. it's a different color (green, if I remember correctly).

I think the "travel permit" is a way for the Chinese government to stake a claim to the child's citizenship.

[msittig]

Thanks for the info, csit.

Still, has anybody gotten a separate hukou book for their Chinese wife? If so, how?

[chabuduo]

My wife got her own Hukou before we got married. She just had to get Her parent's Hukou book, her ID card, some passport photos and go to the right office, spend a minimal fee and that was it. I guess in your case you'd just need your wife to go back to her hometown to sort it all out. Maybe using some guanxi at the local office may speed up the process a little. Make sure that when you get her hukou that they print the marital section section as 已婚.

[ABCinChina]

Making her an American citizen was a simple matter of registering her birth at the American consulate as a ACBA (American Citizen Born Abroad).[/Quote]

Thanks for this information! Are there any requirements to get an American passport for my future baby born in China? (Income, work records in the US, etc.?)

Also, a little technicality, but I came in to China on a Taiwan passport since I hold dual passports, but I was born in the US. Would this be ok, or would I have to go back to USA then come in from China (Instead of Taiwan) to get this done? Thanks for your help.

[msittig]

chabuduo: that's exactly what I was looking for, thanks! Your answer seals this thread as far as I'm concerned.

ABCinChina: to get the passport for your new kid, you have to show that you are a US citizen with your passport and prove that you lived in the US for five years after the age of 14 (I think it's 14... look it up on the US consulate website). I brought all sorts of proof -- school transcripts, tax forms... -- and the consular official didn't ask to see any of it, he just accepted the dates I wrote down on the form. As for the technicality, I'd guess it's not necessary to leave the country, but it's probably best to call or visit the US consulate nearest to you and check. As with all government offices, it's also best to call twice a few days apart and make sure you get the same answer both times ;)

[cdn_in_bj]

Also, a little technicality, but I came in to China on a Taiwan passport since I hold dual passports, but I was born in the US. Would this be ok, or would I have to go back to USA then come in from China (Instead of Taiwan) to get this done?

Does the US even recognize dual citizenship?

[reisen]

well. i know a chinese couple who live in germany more than 20 years.

They still keep their chinese passport, and they don't want to get a germany citizenship even they can get it now easily. They have two children one 18 one 12. I think the children can choose their own citizenships before 18 and endly the 18 one has chosen to be a German.

PS: She was born in Germany. But she can also choose to be a chinese I think. If her parents have got Germany citizenship, then I don't know if she can or not.