Any chance for serious relationship with Chinese girls?

[shanghaikai]

Maybe I'm just communist...?

[cdn_in_bj]

This is like the Chinese version of Swingers.

How would you say "You're money!" in Chinese? "你很牛屄!"?

[simonlaing]

Shanghaikai,

you posts are long and informative. I do agree open plan with big bars for making eye contact are better than booths or KTV exclusive rooms. And I am sure the bar scene in Shanghai is miles better than Nanjing.

You said" If you go to a place that has more emphasis on a dance floor or a bar or an open area with high bar tables, your odds are a bit better. You have to break down what the emphasis of the club is. Lots of people in booths, bad. Lots of people around a bar or dance floor, good. "

The issues with the dance floor, is that Chinese dance bars/discos have very loud music. (yes some western bars do to, but there are usually areas you can get away from it. ) So asking the questions , and chatting her up would seem difficult in loud disco. Let alone if there are language issues.

Your advice is good though.

have fun,

SImon:)

[shanghaikai]

Simon, you'll have to show me around next time I'm in Nanjing. How many days would you say is necessary to see all the worthy sights there? Last time I was there, I only swung by long enough to see the Sun Yat Sen Mausoleum.

When I said, "go for the places with emphasis on a dance floor," I wasn't suggesting that you try to chat up the girls ON the dance floor BY the blaring speakers! My point was that such a venue should have a higher population of girls that are open to meet other people as opposed to girls who are there just to sit by some guys in their booth.

An atmosphere that fosters interaction yields more opportunities for interaction!

When you're there, scope out the people on the dance floor and how they come and go. They won't dance all night so when they take a rest and leave the loud dance floor for someplace to relax a bit that isn't as noisy, that's your cue to swoop in and introduce yourself. If you're particularly charming and amusing, you could always try to dance up to them, flash a smile, use some body language, and see how far you get.

Basic rule of thumb is to be a confident, secure, happy person. People are attracted to that which they want for themselves...and most people lack some confidence, are a bit insecure, and aren't necessarily the happiest person in the world. Sure, some shy pretty boys might get lucky here and there with a girl who thinks they're cute for being shy, but by and large, girls innately want their guys to be more assertive and self-assured than them. So next time you hit up a bar/club, consider walking around and introducing yourself to random girls and guys you may be interested in. Just drop your name, say hi, and move on to the next person. You're planting seeds, but the biggest impression you'll leave is that you're a social person who isn't hiding in a corner but rather making things happen for yourself and those around you. You're becoming the life of the party, becoming visible, and you'll be remembered for it.

Later on in the night, you may run into a girl who might've walked passed you normally but remembers you simply because you walked up to her earlier, smiled, and just said hi. Breaking the ice is the hardest thing to do, and the girls aren't going to do it so you, my man, you gotta do it. Be a friendly, cheerful, dynamic, fun guy and people will cluster to you over time.

[ABCinChina]

Nice advice, shanghaikai! I couldn't help but crack up after reading all those informative posts. Where did you learn all this stuff?

[shanghaikai]

Trial and error?

[md1101]

my god, shanghaikai! lol I didn't expect this thread to turn into some awesome dating advice! Roddy, You need to put shanghaikai's posts in the 'wiki's' section. make one calling 'Dating for Dummies' or something like that.

its great stuff!

[MartinF]

I second what Shanghaikai said about clubs. I met quite a few asian girls, not all Chinese but mainly in China and Hong Kong, actually on the dancefloor. If you are a decent dancer and confident, body language (dancing) can help break the ice.

You will also see by her reaction if she approves or not. If there seems like enough positive signs then you can try the typical introduction lines of conversation after that. Yes, men are still typically expected to start the conversation. Chinese girls are initially quite shy and may be interested but not confident enough to approach you. If they do approach you they may be more likely a gold digger.

As far as figuring out whether she's materialistic or not, then good luck with that. They probably mostly are. having similar incomes is your best bet to avoid conflict.

[LiYuanXi]

I think it's hard to know if the girl is materialistic or not. I have got a foreign friend who dated chinese girls but they all turned out to be only after his wallet. So in the end he gave up!

[MartinF]

yes, if a girl was only after me for my wallet then I would be very disappointed but I think you will be able to see this pretty quickly. If it was the only part of me that interested her. It would be the same if I only wanted a girl for sex. I think she will see that pretty quickly too.

But can we ignore that a person has money or they are sexy? No, it's part of who they are and difficult to separate. Unless you are independently wealthy or blind. These aspects of a person also may not be permanent. Looks and money do not last forever. So I think it's usually more complicated than just saying they are only after your wallet, or you just want them for sex. Those are typical male and female points of view. For a lot of women financial security is a high priority, men are usually after more physical things because financial security is not a problem for them.

What I'm saying is, as individuals, we are all a package of many things. We have various looks, personalities, and incomes. Put them all together and you have an individual in a complete package. So reasons for attraction are actually usually a lot more complex. Than money or looks.

[studentyoung]

But can we ignore that a person has money or they are sexy? No, it's part of who they are and difficult to separate. Unless you are independently wealthy or blind. These aspects of a person also may not be permanent. Looks and money do not last forever. So I think it's usually more complicated than just saying they are only after your wallet, or you just want them for sex. Those are typical male and female points of view. For a lot of women financial security is a high priority, men are usually after more physical things because financial security is not a problem for them.

Hehe, very nice, MartinF! Do you know that there is even some feeling of Zen in your words? It seems that you have potential to be a Zen Monk. Hehe. (Joking!) But at least you are much more peaceful and mature this time than the first time I wrote to you . Congratulations!

Thanks!

[fireball9261]

Yes! You could have a serious relationship with Chinese girls.

I would suggest a few ways to meet "normal" Chinese girls outside the club settings. Talk to Chinese girls around you: the girls manning the shops you frequent, the girls in a bookstore searching for a book, the girls in line waiting for the bus, a movie, or ....., your co-workers, or your classmates if you take any Chinese classes or training classes.

I know many Chinese girls are friendly, especially in big cities like Beijing and Shanghai. Many of them know some English and want to practice them with a foreigner. If you spread your net wide, you will probably find some girls who have good moral values and could be your soul mate. They are out there.

I am a Chinese woman who has married my American husband for the last 29 years. We are soul mates. We met in school, and we both work in jobs of equal salaries. I have my own U.S. citizenship with my family and not from my marriage to him. Many of my female Chinese friends are in the same situation.

However, it doesn't mean that I did not evaluate his family background or his potential earning abilities because we, as Chinese, are practical people. There was a saying, "Love can not substitute bread." It may be originally from the west -- I don't know. Anyway, for any Chinese girl to be in a serious relationship, finance and family background are important. The girl may love you, but her marriage needs to pass her family's approval. (If you are not considering marriage, most Chinese girl would not believe you are considering a serious relationship.) Chinese value our family, and we respect our parents a lot. Many proper Chinese girls would not go against their parents wishes. It would be easier for the Chinese parents to accept a foreign son-in-law who is from a good family and not a bum. I believe that is also the normal basic expectation of western parents for their children (girls or boys).

If you have an attitude of “I am the one who is in need of weeding out the gold-diggers and working girls", you would probably attract most of the gold-diggers and "working-girls". The normal decent Chinese girls would be too proud to even go near you for fear of being seen as the gold-diggers or "working girls". Be friendly, be nice, and be respectable, then, you would allow the right kind of girls to approach you or willing to let you approach them. Don't give the girls expensive gifts, and don't give them money. If it's a date, treat them nicely if you want. Sometimes, take them to inexpensive places and see what their reactions are. Also, see if the girl reciprocates your treats. It doesn't need to be expensive, but it should never be only your treat. That will show a girl's true nature.

Please remember the family approval and acceptance goes both ways. Your parents and family may not accept the girl for various reasons also. Although the western culture values individual rights more than the Chinese culture, I think most people would not like to choose between their family and their spouse whether they are Chinese or westerner. Therefore, please be sensitive to both cultures, and think before you make comments of condemnation. With careful cultivation, you could definitely have a serious relationship with a Chinese girl.

[fireball9261]

Well, the original phrase is "愛情不能當麵包", and Chinese don't have 麵包 until modern times. However, it is possible some Chinese invented this phrase during the time of early 20th century when this kind of western concepts were in fashion.

[g1izmo]

I know for a fact that there is a chance for a serious relationship with a Chinese girl...

However the older I get, the more realistic I become... Ofcourse theres a chance to have a serious relationship, but there would deffinately be more obstacles for me to overcome in order for a serious relationship with a Chinese girl to develop. Here are a few obstacles:

Firstly, the language barrier... I believe communication is key and I like to communicate in detail, so either my mandarin (or her english) would need to be near native.

Secondly, should we live in her home country (China) or my home country (UK)? No doubt family ties would be stretched, and then theres the issues and costs of visas, moving, cultural differences, homesickness, citizenship etc etc.

Thirdly, money! I could earn alot more money at home and would find it hard to develop a career in China thus limiting my potential income, standard or living etc. -- this last one sucks the most!

I can only conclude that my 'hypothetical' relationship with a native Chinese girl would have! to endour more tests than if I were with a girl from down the road.

Giz.

[simonlaing]

Firstly, the language barrier... I believe communication is key and I like to communicate in detail, so either my mandarin (or her english) would need to be near native.

Secondly, should we live in her home country (China) or my home country (UK)? No doubt family ties would be stretched, and then there's the issues and costs of visas, moving, cultural differences, homesickness, citizenship etc etc.

Thirdly, money! I could earn a lot more money at home and would find it hard to develop a career in China thus limiting my potential income, standard or living etc. -- this last one sucks the most!

G1zimo- If you are being completely cynical, no love relationship makes sense.

Why share you life if they could divorce you and take half you worth?

Why have a kid if they would be a drain on your finances, time and energy?

Any relationship worth having you will have to work at, if it is learning the language barrier, dealing with low salary but a higher standard of life and getting along with her parents in China doesn't seem that bad.

In the west you might have you go to the gym 5 times a week, Work a 50 week including commute time, spend inordinante amounts of money on romantic dinners, make sure her friends get along with you and like you, Learn to read her body language and under-statements. Have a job that earns enough money that you can help your future kids through college. Deal with suspicion that you will divorce her or lose fidelity.

This might be exaggerating a bit, but I think in which every country women have trials and requirements for future spouses. If you don't want to choose a Chinese woman because it might affect your net worth I don't know what kind of family won't affect your net worth.

China is a booming, growing market, whose people have a set culture and expectations for relationships. Figure out which circumstances and culture suits you, but don't think their won't be issues in relationships in the west.

Good luck,

Simon:)

[g1izmo]

I guess my last post was abit cynical... Im going to move to China after I graduate.. Ive got family in HK but Ive got my heart set on a year in Shanghai or Beijing studying mandarin at Uni. Ill approach the future with an open mind and sincere intentions and see where I end up.

[NX0398]

simonlaing touches on an important area. 1. "Learn to read her body language and under-statements." In my past relationship what I regarded as subtle understatements were generally regarded by her as overt signs to me as to what to do. She's telling you in advance what you will need to know later. This may be more specific than is needed for this topic but I thought I'd weigh in. I would defiantly say serious relationships are very possible if you are aware of the difficulties ahead of time. For me, paying more attention to her under-statements and knowing what they meant would have saved a lot of heartache for both me and her. Pay attention and takes notes. Ask questions and remember what she says. Maybe this is true of all women regardless of nationality, but it was painfully true of the Chinese girls I have known.

2. Another thing I would suggest is that you try and understand the whole "interested in my wallet" thing. In the West many of us have very strong reactions to those perceived as gold-diggers or women/men only interested in our wallets. For the Chinese women I have known the financial security of a potential mate is extremely important. Love is simply NOT enough. I'll say that again, love is simply NOT enough. There may be women that don't fit this profile but I feel that it is more likely that they will. Don't take it personally when she questions you about your career, goals, and $ worth. I do not believe that many Chinese women have the luxury of simply falling in love for the sake of love. When they ask, it is because you have already passed several other hurdles to a relationship with her. Take it as a compliment and sign of the evolution of your relationship. I had my first real career discussion about 4 months into our relationship. I did get that uneasy feeling when she started probing about my career. We were "just friends" at the time and it seemed rather like a job interview or interrogation than polite conversation. My advice is just take it in stride and as a way to further your relationship. Make sure you have clear goals and answers BEFORE she starts this conversation with you. Be SPECIFIC about what you want and hope to be.

The Chinese women I know have offered extremely rewarding relationships, but this comes at a cost. Pay attention to her, make sure you know yourself, and of course be sure to enjoy your relationship no matter where it goes. You can fall madly in love with a Chinese girl, but be aware of the costs and accept them ahead of time.

[xieco]

For the money thing, I can only speak of Hong Kong, but it may be relevant to your cases.

You can't forget the past of the Chinese. My parents used to live in poverty even in a big city. Life was relaxing, and the only downside was the chronic need of getting rations. Well, anyway, for the young generation now (from the 80s), I can see the norm about romantic pursuits:

- apart from the material thing (money, career, property, etc), generally my generation often regard the age of 30 as a huge turning point of the life of a young adult - a 30-year-old guy should, by now, have a stable career and ready to have a family, while a 30-year-old woman is almost approaching to the end of her...romance live. What does it mean? When you are 30, your child-bearing ability is going to decline very soon and quickly, and you're getting old very soon (even though people usually think Chinese girls age less quickly than Western counterparts), so it's almost the deadline of getting a "long-term rice ticket". If you fail to get a stable bread winner by now, you might have a hard time. Perhaps as a universal belief among many men, (Hong Kong) men wouldn't normally care for middle-aged women either, simply becoz they're getting too old as a partner. On the contrary, if you are a 30-year-old guy, you can struggle for another 10 years before finally getting happily married.

But then, (particularly in Hong Kong), with the Western influence on sexuality, non-religious people (who can safely assume premarital sex) often date, sexually, in a fashion more similar to the "western world" in recent time. Yet, the material thing is still quite intact.

Chinese generally like to over-generalize and, now, younger ones often like arguing over romance, too, with sweeping generalizations. We now often joke about the 30-year-old thing... and even a 20-year-old thing. At the age of 18/20, if a girl can enter a university, but her BF can't, that could also be a source of troubles of their relationship. (To be fair, the reverse would also be generally true, since the school leaver might have troubles with communication and values, too, with her BF as a university student)

In this case, I find it hard NOT to ignore what other Chinese think. Through the years, I got to know the western cultures better by learning languages, but the more I learn, the more I find myself BEING in the Chinese culture. Perhaps because of the materialistic tendency, it seems more Hong Kong guys are complaining about their GFs/female friends who are so materialistic and so much spoiled that they can't cook, they would only ask for money, handbags (luxurious products, etc), etc, without little care for their BFs... often on the verge of break-up. I'd attribute this, like some of them, to the masculine superiority as a traditional thought IN much of the younger generation, so that guys are often assumed a dominant role in everything, to the extent of having to 養 (lit. to feed) their girlfriends. Of coz, like some other Asian countries, there are more career women than ever, but the younger generation often associates single career women with being hardly attractive to men (being too dominant/independent financially), and even if your girlfriend is clever, independent, and caring, you, too, "have to" be cautious whether she'll leave you as soon as she have a higher salary, more money, and higher status than you.

So, on the other hand, Chinese guys (at least in Hong Kong) often have a huge liking for tender, weak, lovely girls who wouldn't burden them too much (being too dependent isn't good, either). This may also be reflected in our general view on beauty. A lot of us seem to criticize Western woman (sometimes, even the hottest models/film stars...) as being too big and independent. As I see it, there still exists a lot of traditional thought in us. But, well, a special feature in some Hong Kong women may be that they're willing to act independently - i.e. to earn a living - on condition that you ALSO work as hard as she does, and they tend to, thus, accept a financially equal relationship. In that case, if such couples bear children, Filipino maids will come into play... (this is not the case in the rest of China). Well, IMNVHO, I, too, am sometimes frustrated with that auto-assumed dominant role (as a guy), and an ever active role even in dealing with ordinary female friends. This is where "under-statements" come into play. Passivity and reliance on male partners (or even guy friends) still seem to be the foundations of (Hong Kong) Chinese femininity.

[Lu]

So... if she doesn't make her own money, but lives off yours, she's no good; but if she makes her own money and generally takes care of herself, she's no good either. One would be amazed that people reproduce at all under such circumstances.

You speak for HK, but I think that this way of thinking is not uncommon in the rest of China either. Girl is passive, guy will make the choices for the both of them. That's pretty much the reason I'll probably never have a Chinese boyfriend, I can't stand that attitude (and neither would a Chinese boyfriend be able to stand my attitude).

[greenleaf1348]

not uncommon in the rest of China either

make that Asia...