Any chance for serious relationship with Chinese girls?

[ZhangKaiRong]

Sorry for resurrecting and old topic, but I think the content here is really interesting, I have my own story about this question.

I got a one-year scholarship to China, I came to Northern China, during the application I chose small and dull cities (compared to Beijing, Shanghai, Nanjing, etc.), due to the fact that I hoped my Chinese skills in a city with only a few foreigners improve rapidly. I was right I guess, I improved a lot, only have Chinese friends, so in this respect, I don't regret my choice.

But, on the love side of the game, I'm regretting a little bit. I started to date a Chinese girl in October, also from my university, we had a lot of romantic stuffs together, I was quite self-confident. After two months of dating, I asked her about the relationship thing. She rejected me, without saying a good reason, she just told me some general women's BS about lack of time, other focus, etc. After that, her roommate told me she really liked me, just supposed after turning 24, she should look for a potential husband, not for a boyfriend. She knew that I coming back to China in 1-2 years to work and live in Shanghai, but still didn't believe I would come back to be with her.

Okay, I accepted this. I started to date some other girls, I got a girlfriend from 北方 3 weeks later. She is 20, so I guessed this marriage-in-a-hurry will be no problem. After starting our winter holiday, I went to travel around the South, she got back to her hometown. We agreed that after coming back to the North in February, I stay at her place for a few days for the spring festival, meet with her parents, etc. During my trip, I was in contact with her everyday. And one day, I got a long message from her on WeChat while I was offline. At home she thought about our future together, and had a conclusion we have no future together, because there is a possibility I won't come back to China (she knew my work at home now is related to China, and after a year or two, I will come back here...). Moreover, her parents are not so pleased that she has no boyfriend (she didn't talk about me with her parents before!), because she is turning 21 this summer, so it's time to have a husband-material boyfriend now. These caring parents also introduced a Chinese guy to her, the two families are on good terms, my ex-girlfriend's dad is the business partner of the new guy's dad. So my exGF wrote me she wouldn't oppose her parent's will, and she also thought that guy was excellent (after all he has a job, a car, a house, and lives in the same town as my exGF). So she broke up with me. and said she was sorry... For me, it's a little bit strange, because during dating, we discussed these questions, and that time it was no problem. Also, the day before "breaking up", she was normal, wrote that she was looking forward to meet with me during the spring festival, and started to plan our spring trips together.. It's interesting, just one day after how everything has changed. And I just can't accept the way she broke up. I mean, who breaks up on the internet at the age of 21?! During my high school years, it was fashionable to use MSN flirting with girls, some even broke up on the MSN, but that was like at the age of 16... That time I also found it quite immature, but my exGF's move was really childish and ridiculous.

I'm a little bit worried about being able to have another girlfriend here... Generally, girls here in Hebei are a lot more conservative and traditional, it was like a miracle I could persuade my exGF to start a relationship just after 3 weeks of dating. And also because of my exGF childish breaking up, I don't want to have another university student girlfriend, they're too... immature. But the problem with the 24-26 years old girls here that most of them have some relationship experience, so most of them just want to have another boyfriend and marry him, because they're "getting old". During my travel to the South, all of the places were full of open-minded girls (I went to Jiangsu, Shanghai, Zhejiang, Guangdong), I had some conversation with them, and their way of thinking about relationship was quite European, they want to live their young years happily, and start to think about marriage after 28. And it seems in these places, it works... Is it possible that the Southern part of much more open-minded? I started to watch 非诚勿扰 on TV, I know that it's not particularly representative, but the girls on the show from the southern part are much more lively and have different way of thinking that I experienced here...

[skylee]

Re #41. Based on info of the post, I think the two girls mentioned have made a reasonable decision.

People are different. Some people accept their parents' views and plan to marry early. Some want to pursue other things while they are younger. This is normal.

[Meng Lelan]

The north is very traditional and conservative. The south less so. Is there some way you can study/work/live in the south like in the Jiangsu area?

[ChTTay]

In response to most of that post... It seems like you are comparing everything here to your own culture and your own social norms. You can't expect it to be the same.

Many/most girls and guys go into a relationship seeking a husband/wife and not just a girl/boyfriend.

As foreigners, we can leave any time, go back to a high quality of living and health/social care. they have to stay here though and find someone else to give them what they want or thought they were going to have with you. Having a stable home mostly - house, car, spending money for luxuries and to care for relatives/parents...etc

Obviously i dont think 27 is too old... But its what the vast majority of people here in China seem to think.

The age thing sounds crazy when compared to our home countries but its a reality here. If you leave a girl when she is approaching 27/28 its going to be much harder for her to find anyone else. Sometimes it seems like the media over plays the reality of this but ive been seeing it more and more recently in my own life.

I have heard the same thing about "starting to think about marriage" after 27 and 28 from friends. However, dig a little deeper and what they usually mean is they want a boyfriend now. Then, in 2 or 3 or 4 years (when they reach the magic age) they want to marry that person.

Its normal to date someone for a year then say "im not rwady now but we will get married in 2 years". To me, thats so strange... I could never say that unless i was equally ready to get married right then, on that day. I could never predict when ill be ready.

I know im generalising quite a bit here

[Lu]

You'll likely have more luck if you'd study in a bigger city, where there will be more women open to relationships of various levels of seriousness with foreigners. You'd also have more luck if you'd be looking for a woman to marry and perhaps live in her hometown with. In the end, most people want to date someone whose background and values are similar to their own, who they know their parents can approve of, whose ideas on life and the future they can easily guess and relate to. It makes life a lot easier. This goes for China as well as other places. To choose you and the insecurities (what will our future look like?) and difficulties (move to another country, parents might be angry, cultural differences, language barrier) that come with that choice, a woman would have to love you quite a lot indeed, OR she would have to already want to have a different life. Of course it's not impossible to find a woman who loves you very much or who wants a different life in a small town in the north, but the odds are slim.

But yah, breakups suck, and I agree that breaking up over internet is cowardly (although that might also be a cultural/social difference).

[gougou]

and I agree that breaking up over internet is cowardly (although that might also be a cultural/social difference).

Yes, I'd definitely put that down under cultural difference. Many Chinese have trouble communicating in the direct way Westerners use - even if said Westerner is the boyfriend. I also think that when the OP says that "during dating, [they] discussed these questions, and that time it was no problem", this might be an effect of the girl not finding a way to bring in her own opinion, rather than a sign of her agreement.

[gato]

Is she a girlfriend after just dating for 3 weeks? If she's not really a girlfriend yet, is it still bad form to call it off over Internet chat?

[kdavid]

My wife flat out rejected me several times before she finally caved.

Her mother also belligerently rejected the idea. When my wife told her she didn't want to meet the man she had been arranged to marry (and then the reason why), her mother showed up at my door step and chased me around my apartment with a butcher knife. (No, I am not exaggerating whatsoever.) Now the woman loves me.

So, yes, it's possible. But, of course, everyone, and situation, is different.

[roddy]

" it was like a miracle I could persuade my exGF to start a relationship just after 3 weeks of dating."

Miraculous acts of persuasion quite often reverse themselves once the miracle-doer leaves the room. Slow down a little, or move to Shanghai.

[Lu]

Is she a girlfriend after just dating for 3 weeks? If she's not really a girlfriend yet, is it still bad form to call it off over Internet chat?

They are girlfriend and boyfriend if they have decided they are. Can be after half a year or after a day. If it's a one-off thing one can be forgiven for just not calling again, but if there is a need to actually officially end it, in my opinion that should be done in person or at the very least on the phone. Unfortunately the manner of breakup is usually not something you can negotiate beforehand (alright, I'll date you, but only if you promise you'll break up with me in person!), so the person being broken up with usually has little say in this.

Somewhat off-topic, sorry.

[gato]

Just trying to show some reality check here. The weeks before Spring Festival break are usually also the time for final exams. I wonder how deep the dating could have been.

[ZhangKaiRong]

@gato: You misunderstand it. We started dating in November, started our relationship on 1st of December. So it was okay, we did what normal Chinese 恋人 do, so there were no problems in our relationship... Breaking up was really out of the blue, though I knew that it could happen, because I'm not Chinese.

BtW, I'm going to work in Shanghai and Hong Kong, but it will be 2 years later. Hope I won't be too old for dating single girls (I will be 26 that time)

[roddy]

Hang on, what happened to Miss October? I want a timeline...

[imron]

Don't worry, 26 will be fine. it's not uncommon in bigger cities like Shanghai to see 50-60 year olds dating single young girls.

[陳德聰]

"Dating" young girls,

The current story is interesting for me because I am wondering what ZhangKaiRong's ultimate goal from this dating is. If it's something serious like marriage, then I think inevitably there will be no problem in finding a Chinese girl to marry. Chinese girls seem to love getting married. If it's not something serious, then I don't see what two girls breaking up with you really matters since you seem to bounce back pretty fast.

[icebear]

26 is plenty young for a guy to keep dating mid-twenties girls in big cities in China. You might draw some concern/judgment if you keep dating girls that are in college much longer - if not for issues of age then for issues of maturity. That will probably correct itself anyway, once you realize slightly older girls are on average much better dating material by western standards (i.e. they are comfortable with dating casually, not rushed to marry, etc).

[Steingletscher]

It seems obvious that no sexual revolution has happened on the mainland as of yet. I'm just curious, has one happened in Hong Kong and Taiwan yet?

But as for my personal experience so far, the only girl I was able to get with spoke pretty good English and had dated a Westerner for a year. Then again, my city has a ton of foreigners and even places where Chinese girls go if they went to have a one night stand with a foreigner. But then the problem is finding the right girl.

I do find this topic a little weird since the culture seems to be obsessed with love (as evident by the music). The only person I know back in America who is as obsessed is a Mormon girl, but she, unlike so far of what I experienced of China, is completely consumed by the idea of marrying someone forever. For the girls that don't want to get married early, they still value the emotions and their intensity in love. Sex, as they have told me, is not very important to their lives and a terrible without love (and this is from girls in both and north, south, and west). One told me that she wants to be reduced to a little girl. Perhaps its a cultural difference and that I spend time with you people, I have yet to come across someone who most values compassion and consolation as opposed to an all consuming infatuation.

I don't know how much it reflects China as a whole, but here is an essay by Peter Vernezze (author of Socrates in Sichuan) about some of his students view at Sichuan University on the subject. The article may not be about dating, but money and marriage. Just might as well throw it out there.

[zhouhaochen]

@icebear

That will probably correct itself anyway, once you realize slightly older girls are on average much better dating material by western standards (i.e. they are comfortable with dating casually, not rushed to marry, etc)

Not rushed to marry for slightly older girls in China? Really?

[icebear]

It seems obvious that no sexual revolution has happened on the mainland as of yet. I'm just curious, has one happened in Hong Kong and Taiwan yet?

Maybe not in the sticks, but in the bigger mainland cities girls are quite liberal (and often from the provinces!). Of course its a matter of going to the right bar/place and knowing how to spot/approach that type of girl - just like in "sexually revolutionary" countries. Even in the US/EU many girls are still sexually conservative.

[roddy]

These discussions make me think of this. Hands up who's dated a representative sample of the Chinese nation? Who's that at the back... you tart...