Pronunciation in dictionaries and in reality

[Josh2007]

But Chinese people do often pronounce 熟悉 as shóuxi, and it is in the Wenlin dictionary as shóuxi as well as shúxī. 角色 is in the Wenlin dictionary as jiǎosè as well as juésè. In fact the entry under juésè just says "role, part"; but the entry under jiǎosè says "1. role (in a play etc); 2. function, position; 3. star, celebrity". 模样 is in Wenlin under both móyàng and múyàng. I have said elsewhere that maybe Wenlin aka the ABCD dictionary adopts a "descriptive" rather than a "prescriptive" approach? How are you defining the standard? You mean by using the Contemporary Chinese Dictionary as the final arbiter?

[muyongshi]

I don't know specifically their thought process in either of those dictionaries but you have to consider those are dictionaries produced for language learners, specifically english speakers. If you find one of those big honking Chinese-Chinese dictionary that is used for standard mandarin those things will not be included...

[muyongshi]

I remembered another one again today 给予

incorrect: gei yu

correc: ji yu

Very few people pronounce it ji yu even though that is correct....

[ABCinChina]

Luoman, most of the examples you provided can be pronounced both ways except for 血 in which I've never heard anybody pronounce it xue4.

誰 - I always use shei2 but I often hear it as shui2 in China.

[muyongshi]

誰 - I always use shei2 but I often hear it as shui2 in China.

That is the official thing though.

In all the other examples 灸, 血, 熟 are the mispronunciations. The 处 depends on the situation (meaning what compound word it is with) 熟 can be pronounced shou if it is used alone. But compound it can't 血3 and 灸1 are not in any official mandarin dictionary.

[fireball9261]

This thread really messed up my pronunciation now. There are the proper ways to pronounce things in Mandarin. However, sometimes if you pronounce with the proper ways, people would look at you funny and then correct your pronunciations to the really "proper" way of pronunciations. Therefore, I don't bother with the really "incorrect" but popular ways of pronunciations just so I don't get into pronunciation arguments with someone. Besides, as someone in this thread said, language changes over time. I have seen a lot of "proper" Chinese words and phrases got transformed into something else just over my life time. I think some of the Chinese dictionaries need to get an update and re-print soon.

[muyongshi]

However, sometimes if you pronounce with the proper ways, people would look at you funny and then correct your pronunciations to the really "proper" way of pronunciations.

I agree with you 100%. I just make sure I know both and in class I use "standard" and with everyone else I use "real" mandarin. It would be nice if they atleast discussed the current trends (especially with 血) and considered changing the tones or atleast adding the option...

[skylee]

It would be nice if they atleast discussed the current trends (especially with 血) and considered changing the tones or atleast adding the option...

It seems that 血 is always on your mind. I don't really have much chance to use the word ...

[fireball9261]

It also bugs me whenever people pronounce 血 no matter which way they go. I am a very bloody minded Chinese woman -- I think it's probably due to my pirates ancestors (Wenzhou was a major Chinese and Japanese pirate base for a few hundred years).