摇滚：rock or rock-and-roll?

[Luoman]

Is there a difference between rock and rock-and-roll in the Chinese language? It seems that both are called 摇滚. Anyway I wonder if the difference can be expresssed properly in Chinese.

[skylee]

You mean "rock" and "rock-and-roll" are two different types of music?

[Luoman]

I think in English they may mean the same and may also differ. The word "rock" usually refers to the music style that appeared in the late 1960`s, and "rock-and-roll" is a more traditional style, which is rather a simple kind of music. Don`t know how to express myself clearly, maybe someone would say it better than me.

[muyongshi]

Rock and Rock and Roll are two separate genres of music yes that is correct. But only a person who is 1) really into music or 2) has studied a lot about music would even really give a rip about the difference as most people think they are they same.

Rock and roll is the earliest form dating back to our fried Elvis Presley. As we all know he is the King of Rock and Roll. Listen to his style and you will ask yourself, "Why is this Rock?" and there in you will see the difference between the two. Rock emerged later and was accompanied by a heavier sound but also is a much broader genre and it became the father of other genres like hard rock, punk, and so on.

[gato]

Is Elvis's music Rockabilly?

Also "rock 'n roll" is a reference to sex, whereas "rock," I suppose, is not as much, or maybe just sex without the roll.

[muyongshi]

So what refers to the drugs??

[gato]

The early rock 'n rollers weren't too big into drugs.

[muyongshi]

That's what I'm saying...Rock and Roll is Rock and Sex so if the later rockers are just Rock, what happened to the drugs? Or were they just too stoned out of their minds to remember to add the second part?

[Luoman]

I find it very interesting that the Chinese call Elvis Presley 猫王 and usually don`t know his real name.

A friend of mine told me she liked 重金属摇滚. I`m still wondering what it is. 重金属 is evidently "heavy metal". But you cannot say "heavy metal rock-n-roll". It`s either heavy metal, or hard rock, or rock-n-roll, or what else? When I asked if she could give me an example, she said: "The Beatles"

[calibre2001]

No fixed definition, some consider Guns n Roses, AC/DC rock n roll. I guess as long as it's bluesy, it qualifies as rock n roll. Afterall early Elvis is essentially blues/Rhythm n Blues.

For me 'rock' refers to rock music produced from the 60s heavy blues movement i.e. Clapton, LedZep to Nirvana to Audioslave bla bla

[muyongshi]

But of all those you just mentioned (heavy metal, hard rock, as well as MANY MANY more) are all forms that have come out of rock and roll. If you have ever studied music history you would know this. While now in English we cannot combine the phrase I see no reason why they couldn't say it that way in Chinese because they have yet to designate the rock part if they just say 重金属. So saying it this way is just one way of saying it. They are forms of Rock and Chinese just has to clarify what type it is by using 摇滚.

But of course your friend doesn't really know what it is if she thinks the Beatles fall under that classification.

[Luoman]

By the way, is the Chinese expression 蓝色心情 somehow connected with "blues" or "to be blue"?

[gato]

I think rock isn't very popular in China because most Chinese rock is either punk or very heavy metal (like death metal), what might be called hardcore rock. There's not much in the way of melodic rock, like metal by Guns 'n Rose, Def Leppard, post-Punk by Social Distortion, or pop punk by Green Day.

The Chinese are used to listening to sugary pop music, which are similar to pre-1960 rock era ballads in the West. It's too much of a leap to go from pop ballads to punk or death metal. Even in the West, hardcore rock only has a small following. In China, most people just dismiss rock, period, thinking that it's all hardcore. The rock scene in Taiwan is quite a bit more mature and has more variety. There's even an indie rock scene there.

Here are earlier threads on the Chinese music scene:

http://www.chinese-forums.com/showthread.php?p=112632#post112632

Good Chinese music?

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/6175-hard-rock-in-china&highlight=punk

Hard Rock in China

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/10446-is-there-any-decent-rocks-clubs-in-bj&highlight=punk

Is there ANY decent rocks clubs in BJ?

[liuzhou]

I'm still too busy laughing at

Rock and roll is the earliest form dating back to our fried Elvis Presley

to contribute!

[muyongshi]

That was on purpose.... I was making a statement (okay so I wasn't)

[Ari 桑]

I have heard 滚石 for rock and roll, and 摇滚 for rock.

[Luoman]

I have heard 滚石 for rock and roll

Isn`t 滚石 the Rolling Stones?

[Ari 桑]

Haha, I googled it, and yeah 滚石乐队 are the stones. I still feel like I've heard this refer to other things. There is a club in beijing called 滚石 which is translated as rock and roll.

[renzhe]

The Chinese are used to listening to sugary pop music, which are similar to pre-1960 rock era ballads in the West. It's too much of a leap to go from pop ballads to punk or death metal. Even in the West, hardcore rock only has a small following. In China, most people just dismiss rock, period, thinking that it's all hardcore. The rock scene in Taiwan is quite a bit more mature and has more variety. There's even an indie rock scene there.

It's very probably exactly BECAUSE the Chinese music is so sugary that the more extreme rock forms are getting popular. Punk and metal have always been a radical reaction to the mainstream.

You have a very similar phenomenon in Japan, where the J-pop sugar is contrasted with some of the most violent and noisy grindcore and experimental music (see Melt Banana or The Ruins). Of course, the Japanese scene has evolved leaps and bounds and is far ahead of the Chinese scene in this sense.

I think that the following decade will bring lots of interesting bands coming out of China. Beijing and Shanghai are extremely lively cities quickly turning into melting pots and there are interesting bands coming out of there, many touring Europe and the US.

It's a bit odd that the major Chinese rock acts are all from the 80s (Cui Jian, Tang Chao, Hei Bao, ...) and that little has happened in the meantime. The backstreet boys took over But looking at some more underground bands, there should be a very interesting future.

[renzhe]

As for the distinction between "rock" and "rock and roll", it is somewhat academic.

Generally, today "rock and roll" refers to the early rock and roll music, like Jerry Lee Lewis, Elvis, and the like, while "rock" is a generic umbrella term covering any type of music that involves electric guitars: hard rock, prog-rock, pop-rock, punkrock, all types of metal, post-rock, noise-rock, etc ad infinitum.

Neither term has a very solid and clear definition, so this understanding of them is simply a reflection of modern usage, and there is no reason why Chinese people shouldn't say 摇滚. After all, all of these different types of rock music developed from original rock and roll, and "rock" is simply a shortened form of "rock and roll" which doesn't involve associations of Chubby Checker.