Should I start my career or study Chinese?

[Lu]

Every American has *some* type of abroad experiences during their university education, so two more years in Beijing are unlikely to help you in terms of job advancement.

Really? Even in Holland (small and travel-eager country) this is not true, although it sometimes feels so. Most of my friends have been abroad one way or the other, but certainly not everyone does this.

And 24 is old to start your first job? I'm 26 and just got started on mine, and it's not even really in the field. Just that I don't really know what field I want to be in. Am I glad I'm not American...

[miffy2007]

Really? Even in Holland (small and travel-eager country) this is not true, although it sometimes feels so. Most of my friends have been abroad one way or the other, but certainly not everyone does this.

And 24 is old to start your first job? I'm 26 and just got started on mine, and it's not even really in the field. Just that I don't really know what field I want to be in. Am I glad I'm not American...

Lu: Sorry, I shouldn't say *every* American (because this is not true), but more like every American in my field of work. But many universities (especially elitist schools) in America now makes it a requirement of sort to study abroad during their undergrad studies.

I know things are a bit different over in Europe, ie, by the time some Italians finish their BAs, they are almost 25! But yes, 24 for first job is considered a late start in the US, especially in the field of foreign affairs.

[Lu]

Miffy, I deduce that you are working in foreign affairs. I fully believe that virtually anyone there would have been abroad for some time. Would be strange if they hadn't been, really.

Thing is, even sinologists can end up working in all kinds of fields. A degree in something Chinese closes certain doors (you likely won't become a computer scientists, or an engineer, or a professional soccer player), but still keeps plenty open. It doesn't have to be foreign affairs, it can be a lot of other things.

I think the most important thing is that you study (and do) something you like and are interested in, as that increases the opportunity that you will find a job that you like and are interested in. So if you really want to go to China and study Chinese, go and do it. Especially if you don't know really know what you want. Better to do something you do know what you want (go to China), and meanwhile try to figure out what you want to do next, than do something you don't want and end up unhappy.

At least that's what I believe, and so I came here. Am rather confident that I will figure out what to do next, and that all will work out fine. And in the meantime, I wish the OP lots of luck with his decision and with whatever plan he decides to go for.

[miffy2007]

Lu, I agree with you completely. Of course, the OP should study something he likes and interested in. But since he's from the states and mentions that he might move to NY, I thought I can give him some practical advice. This is why I asked what he plans to do (as a career) and if he already has any abroad experience during his undergrad years.

The American work culture is VERY rigorous and I know some Europeans think that Americans are workohalic. Americans like to take stuff from work to do at home and they don't like to be parted with their blackberries. I've only lived in NYC and DC so I don't know what other cities are like. But as far as job application goes, age discrimination is VERY rampart, especially in places like DC, partly because the job scene there is extremely competitive. As the OP lives in the states, I was just giving some pointers as to what the job scene of a particular field is like.

An average entering Foreign Service Officer of the State Department would be around 30. But most of my friends were only 27 or younger when they sworn in. And before starting their career with the State Department, they have already worked for some years. Most would have considerable abroad experiences by the time they finished their MAs at around 24. Some finish their MA at an even earlier age. But that's just in America and it certainly depends on the kind of field you're in. I mean it's highly unusual to finish an MBA or law degree at 24! So I'm just trying to be as realistic as possible. I think for man, the cut-off point is about 26-28. If by then you're still "figuring" out what to do, you're basically done for in America.

And if I were the OP and unsured of what my career goals are, I would apply to do internships first - it usually is a very good way to figure out if a particular field interests him. What I was saying is that, if he decides to go to China for 2 years, he should make all the necessary academic and professional connections before leaving the US. And one way of getting valuable connections is through interning. If he can get an internship (usually 3-6 months), for example, with the State Department, things could be easier for him later down the road in terms of employment when he returns. But whatever he does, do not just abandon everything and leave for China. If he stays in China for 2 years, when he comes back, he might be completely out of synch with the job market...unless, he plans to be an academic then he can take his time - but that's a completely different field altogether.

Like I said, America has a completely work culture/ethic than Europe.

[Crivens200]

If you do decide to come to China, I think it important that you spend your time aiming to achieve something other than leaving after 2 years with nothing but "Studied chinese, taught english, travelled" on your CV at the end of it.

[Qcash3]

By the time you come back to the states after 2 years, you'll be 23 or 24 - an embarrassing age to find first-time employment in the field, worst if you are male. Starting your serious first job young is extremely crucial in American work culture and the age factor dictates what you'll do or where you'll be in the next 10 years. A lot of people in America become "drifters" (moving from temp jobs to temp jobs) because they made wrong choices right out of college. I'm sorry if I'm not being too supportive - but I'm trying to give you some on the ground info. Every American has *some* type of abroad experiences during their university education, so two more years in Beijing are unlikely to help you in terms of job advancement.

I hope 23-24 isn't that embarrassing as I am considering the International Affairs field, and since I took a year and a half to study in China right after high school, I will be 23-24 upon graduation from college. When you say that "starting your serious first job young is extremely crucial in American work culture and the age factor dictates what you'll do or where you'll be in the next 10 years," I don't think that is necessarily true. I think that it really depends on the person themselves. If you are a hard worker then you might advance faster than people who started before you, although I do understand what you are saying. As for your point about "drifters," I believe you are absolutely right. There are alot of people who make the wrong choices right out of college and end up floating around, but the wrong choices are different for every person. During my time in Beijing I met a kid who had done the same thing that Strider is considering, he graduated from college in 2004 then spent two years in China, and now he is studying for his masters in Australia. I don't know how things will end up for him, but I trust things will end up well. Perhaps a better example is a student I met who had taken a year to study in Beijing to improve upon the Chinese skills he had built up in college, and subsequently he landed a well payed internship with Goldman Sachs, a well known asset management firm. His internship later turned into a full time job. I realize that this is not the International Affairs field so it may be apples and oranges, but real world experience is very important. Linguistic skills alone may not help you too much in finding work with the federal government or NPOs, but if combined with some other skill they may prove invaluable.

[Loriquero]

Really interesting opinions miffy2007, is good to keep reading this forum in order to read experiences from more experienced people.

Which kind of skills do you think is more valuable in the international affair field besides another language?

I'm a 22 years old guy with bachelor in marketing just arrived to China, doing my chinese languages studies, and next year I hope to begin my master degree on international trade on chinese (thanks CSC scholarship) I barely had work experience of 1 year in my field, basically managing sponsorship and media contacts on video gaming events in Colombia...

I came to China and refused to continue working basically because wages for non-experience bachelors in Colombia suck, and ascending ladder working is really hard, plus, there's no many people in my country with abroad experience, even less with enough english knowledge (I don't have it, neither, but I think I'm better than most people I know there...), and almost nobody with chinese knowledge... So I thought I could make difference learning chinese, now that my country is about to start serious business with asia.

So, hopefully I will come back to Colombia at 25-26, with two new items in my CV (chinese proficiency and MA, and again, hopefully... will be hard task) I think I really like this field and I want to work on it, but now I'm a little worried to return very old and unexperienced...

What do you think?

[adrianlondon]

I think Columbia and the US are very different. In the US, they will want experienced business men to deal with China. They won't care much about language skills as they'll expect the Chinese business to employ enough translators.

Columbia will be different and I think, like in many countries in Africa right now, Mandarin will be a usefull skill. Couple that with your relevant MBA and age isn't going to be a factor.

The only problem will be if Columbia, for whatever reason, doesn't end up doing much business with China.

[Loriquero]

Columbia = Ohio (I think)

Colombia = South america

thanks for your opinion anyway

[adrianlondon]

Well, I meant Colombia as you can tell from my description. I live nowhere near either ;)

[Sgt_Strider]

I completely forgot about this thread and I thought I would post some clarifications here.

First, I have travelled to China to study Mandarin. In fact, I was in Beijing for almost the entire summer studying Mandarin. I'm kind of embarassed when it comes to my language skills. I have studied Cantonese, Mandarin, and French, but I'm not fluent either of these languages despite studying them for a long period of time. For Cantonese and Mandarin, it's because I never got into it. With Mandarin, this is not my major. I'm doing a double major in History and Political Science. My dream job would lie in the Department of Foreign Affairs, but the internship e-mail that I got requires some sort of knowledge of Mandarin. I missed the opportunity to apply because I have not graduated yet as that was a requirement.

I am afraid that I leave for two years and come back to find work, my future employers would be disappointed that I only learned Mandarin, taught English, and travelled for 2 years. If I was going to do that, I rather do it for one year. I'm seriously burned out and I can't imagine that I'll work after I graduate. The last four years have taken a serious toll on me. I am physically and psychologically exhausted. In a way, I felt like I just went through war (okay that's a stretch, but university is hard despite what some people would say).

I don't know if this will be hard to believe, but I don't need to save any money whatsoever because everything will be financed by my parents.

[DrWatson]

I am afraid that I leave for two years and come back to find work, my future employers would be disappointed that I only learned Mandarin, taught English, and travelled for 2 years

You have only mentioned the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and that really limits what we can say. I assume you are considering other options as well, as such jobs are normally highly competitve and there are not so many openings each year. To answer your question though, for the private sector, it really depends on the employer at the end of the day. If you want to get into management or career track trainee programs with multinationals, you generally need to have graduated within a year to qualify. They want train you and mold you their way and they want young, motivated people who are "clean slate".

If you're looking to work in international affairs, I think the language study would help, but you need to consider what you are giving up by going to China to study language and culture only. You will probably come back after two years and be competing with people with graduate level degrees and recommendations from employers and university instructors. They will probably have less language fluency than you, but with MOFA type work, normally language skill matters less than being able to do the type of job you are assigned.

I think you just have to weigh all of your options: more schooling, working, or language study abroad. In the private sector, I think two years is not going to hurt you. You can explain that you wanted to learn more Mandarin, and teaching ESL helped you pay tution. Along the way, you learned more about motivating students (leardership skills), speaking in front of the class (presentations and public speaking), and managing conversation flows (useful in leading meetings), et cetera. If you don't teach ESL and just travel and study, well, it will be harder (you only studied and travel and you had no work experience still) but again I think it would depend on the employer.

[Sgt_Strider]

Maybe I'll delay graduation and go on exchange. I went to the office the other day to discuss this with the secretary and she said there would be no problems with me doing that. I think this way I am officially still at school, but I'll be somewhere in Asia like Beijing or Shanghai and just study Mandarin.

[dedsall78]

Strider,

Honestly, if this is what you want to do, do it. I haven't read this whole thread but, after reading your posts, I feel that you are thinking about this way too much. If this is what you want to do, then do it. Things will work out in the end.

If you do want to do go to China and you don't, then you are going to be one of those people who, when they grow old, say they wish they had "done this" when they were younger... Worst case scenario is you decide to come back.

I am moving to Beijing in 2 months! I'm getting all set to go!

David

[gato]

I'm doing a double major in History and Political Science. My dream job would lie in the Department of Foreign Affairs, but the internship e-mail that I got requires some sort of knowledge of Mandarin. I missed the opportunity to apply because I have not graduated yet as that was a requirement.

As one of the above posters said, high-level public sector jobs have few openings and very competitive. The school where you received your degree is probably a big factor. Just prepared. But there are plenty of options in the private sectors. Just think about your options. Many people who study poli sci and history end up as lawyers, for example.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/01/AR2007110102675.html?hpid=topnews

Fulfillment Elusive for Young Altruists In the Crowded Field of Public Interest

By Ian Shapira

Washington Post Staff Writer

Friday, November 2, 2007; Page A01

[DrWatson]

Maybe I'll delay graduation and go on exchange. I went to the office the other day to discuss this with the secretary and she said there would be no problems with me doing that. I think this way I am officially still at school, but I'll be somewhere in Asia like Beijing or Shanghai and just study Mandarin.

I don't think that delaying the offical date of your graduation is going to make employers think any different. "Why 6 years for an undergrad degree rather than four?" (3 I guess if you're in the UK or Australia) As I said above, when applying for a competitive employment like foreign office, investment banking or multinational corporation career ladder programs, you have to think about what you have accomplished and what makes you stand out over everyone else. I'm sure a lot of people on this forum who like languages and cultures want to work in their country"s foreign office, but sometimes the guy with a law degree and no language ability has a better shot. And like gato mentioned, the name of your school will go a long way in determining entrance into such a program. There is a reason graduates from Oxford, Cambridge, Yale, Harvard, McGill, and military colleges often end up in high-level government service.

If you really don't feel ready to enter the workforce, don't do it yet. Since you're parents are going to foot your bill, I'd say you're very lucky in you have a choice in what you want to do. It sounds like you want to study Chinese, and since you can do that without having to teach ESL you'll have a lot of time to study and learn the language. Perhaps if you don't study in China now, you might regret it all of your life. Who knows what will happen if you don't do it now? You may fall in love, get married,and not be able to easily go study Chinese. You might lose interest in languages in a few years, you never know. But if you really want to do it and the only thing holding you back is worrying about what employeers might think then you shouldn't lose much sleep over it. Very few people really do understand the way actual corporate and government hiring works. It is often all up to one or two people who make decisions based on their impressions of an candidate.