Handwriting Thread!!

[xiaocai]

Do you write vertically much? I think it should help.

Basically I just don't write much now, since almost everything is computerised. The only occasions probably are just writing my own diary and post cards to friends. As you can imagine the writing will not be very neat. I think that most people will need regular practice to maintain a good hand writing, or it will just deteriorate over time.

[flippant]

My handwriting.

Deliberately written to look like my normal notes. Badly spaced, of varying size, and written with a retractable pencil (0.7 in this case). I always try to get the stroke order right, as I find it helps the legibility and speed.

I've been studying Chinese for about a year and a half now, including 6 months in BJ.

[Outofin]

Watermarkers imitating brushes.

[CrisPal]

Well, my daughter is 5 years old,in the past month and a half,she has praticed in Chinese brush handwriting.I know that can not be good but I like it.

[Meng Lelan]

she has praticed in Chinese brush handwriting.

Excellent!!!

[Hofmann]

隸書. Not bad. Make absolutely sure she follows the right stroke order for 上, which is horizontal first. Also, it seems the concentration of the ink isn't high enough.

Wait, she just started? I highly recommend staring with 楷書. See this video.

[Guest realmayo]

Make absolutely sure she follows the right stroke order for 上, which is horizontal first.

You mean for 隸書, versus normal handwriting?

[Hofmann]

I mean for anything but 草書, (which is left dot, right dot, bottom dot).

[Guest realmayo]

Ah, perhaps you‘re not aware that 上 is commonly taught to be written with a vertical stroke first.

[Hofmann]

I am aware. That is why I pointed it out.

[CrisPal]

Right,she is just a beginner.Both LI and KAI can be choiced to start with.

[roddy]

Trying to get a little girl in trouble with her teachers . . . . you big old meanie you, Hofmann.

Is that stroke order actually taught anywhere?

[Guest realmayo]

I'd hope not, cos it's stupid! B)

[semantic nuance]

she has praticed in Chinese brush handwriting.

Wow! She has a great handwriting!! Impressive!

[Hofmann]

Both LI and KAI can be choiced to start with.

Do you want to explain? If I understand you correctly that one can start with both 隸書 and 楷書, you are correct, but one can also start with the others 草行篆. I was talking about what is the best to start with, in that it helps one learn more efficiently. Ever since the Tang Dynasty, all calligraphers (those good enough to have made writings people preserve and copy) started with 楷書.

Is that stroke order actually taught anywhere?

As a regional standard, no. But it is taught wherever an informed Chinese (calligraphy) teacher with enough guts to go against the prescriptions of the government teaches Chinese.

I'd hope not, cos it's stupid!

I'll tell you what's stupid. Look at the field she's studying. Students of calligraphy need to learn how to look for answers themselves, to question existing knowledge and seek the truth. Yes, I am trying to get her in trouble with her teachers, because I want her teachers to get in trouble with their teachers, all the way back to whoever made this stuff up. But let us not assume that her calligraphy teacher doesn't know the correct stroke order of 上. Maybe he/she knows and the character was written correctly. Unfortunately, that's probably not the case. What would probably happen if he/she heard that Some Random American said that the stroke order of 上 in everything but 草書 is horizontal first, is that he/she would dismiss it immediately, thinking that there's no way Some Random American could be right. If he/she were a real scholar, as all students and teachers of calligraphy should be, he/she would check. Check with what? Models of course, which are examples of the best handwriting in history. If they did, they would see that indeed, Some Random American is right. But even after that, some of them, whom I cannot call scholars or teachers but only frauds, go into denial. They cannot let go of their face. They will resort to illogical methods of making it look like they are still right, turning to other authorities that have done even less research then they have, or saying it's acceptable because they don't need to follow old models in a modern society. Such an approach to studying Chinese calligraphy defeats the purpose of studying Chinese calligraphy. They might as well make up their own language, because one cannot study Chinese calligraphy without acknowledging and respecting the primary sources of information of Chinese calligraphy scholars.

[Guest realmayo]

She's five. You'd want her to parrot to her teachers also: "matter isn't solid"; "the Party is a fraud"; "2 plus 2 doesn't have to equal 4"? Your views on 上 are no doubt all very interesting in their way but it seems a bit disingenuous not to have mentioned them at the time of your original statement. Or was that a self-deprecating in-joke that I rather stupidly missed? Anyhow, this being a handwriting thread, I'll note that if using a biro at any real speed I write 上 your way it tends to look like 土 so on the basis of this and this alone I disagree with you that your way is the only correct way to write 上 for normal, everyday handwriting!

[roddy]

To be fair, Hofmann wasn't actually suggesting she start a one-child campaign. But at the same time, making sweeping statements about stroke order on a site populated to quite some extent by learners without any explanation - all you need to do is say 'nowadays pretty much everyone . . .but way back . . . so if you're actually interested in calligraphy you might want to . . .' - is liable to mislead and confuse. It also requires a lot more posts and typing in the long run.

Even if it's a discussion specific to calligraphy, people are going to want (and need - try using that stroke order for handwriting recognition. I get 土 every time) a fuller picture.

[Meng Lelan]

How do I post my handwriting sample here? First I scan it and then what?

[Hofmann]

You can either upload it to an image host and then link to it or upload it to the discussion board directly as an attachment to your post. If I'm not mistaken, there is only a small amount of memory available for each member on the discussion boards, so I've been using TinyPic as an image host for a while, but they recently got annoying by requiring me to type fake words. One time they required me to type an ß.

Even if it's a discussion specific to calligraphy, people are going to want (and need - try using that stroke order for handwriting recognition. I get 土 every time) a fuller picture.

Roger.

[roddy]

There should be enough memory for plenty of images, certainly if you're resizing them to a reasonable size and resolution. You could maybe use this tool to do so.

To attach the image you need to use the full editor - ie, hit one of the reply buttons, or the 'full editor' button below the fast reply box. Then under the reply box, Attachments > Click to Attach Files.

Hofmann, do you want to start a new topic on this and similar stroke order issues. It is interesting.