文言訓開班 Posted October 31, 2007 at 03:20 AM Report Posted October 31, 2007 at 03:20 AM Thanks, Gato. I know in several dialects, one still 食(吃)茶 rather than 喝茶. Wait, doesn't one 吃汤? Quote
gato Posted October 31, 2007 at 03:25 AM Author Report Posted October 31, 2007 at 03:25 AM Right. 喝 might not even exist in Shanghainese, but my Shangainiese is a bit rusty. Quote
imron Posted October 31, 2007 at 03:30 AM Report Posted October 31, 2007 at 03:30 AM Wait, doesn't one 吃汤?Up here in the north, people 喝汤 and also 喝粥. Quote
文言訓開班 Posted October 31, 2007 at 03:48 AM Report Posted October 31, 2007 at 03:48 AM well, here in new york, you EAT soup, or you go to bed hungry! (where are you two?) Quote
muyongshi Posted October 31, 2007 at 04:16 AM Report Posted October 31, 2007 at 04:16 AM well, here in new york, you EAT soup, or you go to bed hungry! Remember to NOT compare the 说法's of two completely different languages. In 北方语 you can only say 喝. This is one of the bigger problems for students of Chinese as most usually want to say eat soup but in Mandarin (not a clue about shanghai) you have to say drink. Try not to do that type of comparison... Quote
文言訓開班 Posted November 5, 2007 at 07:38 AM Report Posted November 5, 2007 at 07:38 AM Alright! So, I've just finished 春风沉醉的晚上....I was a bit overzealous in my previous excitement over this story. It seems this was, as was pointed out, sort of a clip of his life over the span of like a week. I got hints of some exciting themes, but I got no conclusion here. What do you guys think, what was this story about? Quote
muyongshi Posted November 5, 2007 at 07:46 AM Report Posted November 5, 2007 at 07:46 AM Showing how shitty his life was.... Didn't get much else about "what it was about" than that. Still thought it was a good short story. Quote
studentyoung Posted November 5, 2007 at 08:00 AM Report Posted November 5, 2007 at 08:00 AM Showing how shitty his life was.... Objection! (Cultural shock again!) At least, he could 坐怀不乱, like柳下惠! How about compare him with James Bond 007, who takes ”sex for dinner, death for breakfast”. 成语：坐怀不乱【解释】：春秋时鲁国的柳下惠将受冻的女子裹于怀中，没有发生非礼行为。形容男子在两性关系方面作风正派。 http://www.zdic.net/cy/ch/ZdicE5Zdic9DZdic9026523.htm Cheers! Quote
muyongshi Posted November 5, 2007 at 08:08 AM Report Posted November 5, 2007 at 08:08 AM Objection! (Cultural shock again!) At least, he could 坐怀不乱, like柳下惠! How about compare him with James Bond 007, who takes ”sex for dinner, death for breakfast”. Okay I can live with this just let it be noted that my comment did not entail any sort of reference to how he lived his life, or his character through it. I simply was talking about the circumstances.... Quote
文言訓開班 Posted November 5, 2007 at 08:16 AM Report Posted November 5, 2007 at 08:16 AM Hmmn. I didn't think his life was all that shitty. Point of fact, the girl points out that he doesn't seem to have a job (he expresly points this out, and that he hadn't had one for six months ), yet seems to be able to afford to sit around and do nothing (well, work on getting published). He's also obviously college educated, and certainly qualified to work in a cigarette factory. He's probably from a relatively rich family. I've gotta believe there's more to this than just a literary coitus interruptus. What about the title? 春风沉醉晚上. I may be interpreting this wrong, but I think 春风 is a reference to him learning something that changed him in some small but not insignificant way at 冬春交, and I'm pretty sure it happened that long night they spent talking. Quote
studentyoung Posted November 5, 2007 at 08:33 AM Report Posted November 5, 2007 at 08:33 AM Hmmn. I didn't think his life was all that shitty. Point of fact, the girl points out that he doesn't seem to have a job (he expresly points this out, and that he hadn't had one for six months ), yet seems to be able to afford to sit around and do nothing (well, work on getting published). He's also obviously college educated, and certainly qualified to work in a cigarette factory. He's probably from a relatively rich family. I've gotta believe there's more to this than just a literary coitus interruptus. Hmmm… How about take my words in my previous post #20 as some reference? “你家在什么地方？何以不回家去？”她问到了这里，我忽而感觉到我自己的现状了。因为自去年以来，我只是一日一日的萎靡下去，差不多把“我是什么人？”“我现在所处的是怎么一种境遇？”“我的心里还是悲还是喜？”这些观念都忘掉了。经她这一问，我重新把半年来困苦的情形一层一层的想了出来。所以听她的问话以后，我只是呆呆的看她，半晌说不出话来。她看了我这个样子，以为我也是一个无家可归的流浪人。脸上就立时起了一种孤寂的表情，微微的叹着说： “唉！你也是同我一样的么？” I think it might be the author’s intention, too. Maybe 郁达夫tried to express the meaning of the famous verse by 白居易，”同是天涯沦落人，相逢何必曾相识Fellow sufferers sympathize with each other, why bother to know who you are.” What about the title? 春风沉醉晚上. Sorry, but without understanding what is 坐怀不乱, I’m afraid that you can’t get the deep meaning of the title “春风沉醉的晚上Spring Night”. No matter how bad his life could be, no matter how attractive the “Spring Night” was, he still didn’t indulge his lust. but I think 春风 is a reference to him learning something that changed him in some small but not insignificant way at 冬春交, and I'm pretty sure it happened that long night they spent talking. “春风” here implies some kind of romantic feeling in it. Cheers! Quote
文言訓開班 Posted November 5, 2007 at 08:56 AM Report Posted November 5, 2007 at 08:56 AM Whoa you're right. He's not rich. He's not homeless, though, and he's not working. If he's having a tough time with life during this episode, it sounds more like an existential problem than a material one. I thought the drunken spring night was something romantic early on, and especially so during their encounter. But the story never explored it any deeper than the fact that there are these two people in a similar position in life who live next to one another and have a rappor. I just wasn't feeling the romance aspect of this story too much. Maybe I'm just not sensitive enough to the language yet. Clearly he was looking forward to seeing her again, but there were other possibilities for why he would be. He wanted to repay her for the muffins (or whatever those were). He's clearly lonely, he could've just been happy to have, as you said, a Fellow sufferer. Edit: Or maybe the romance implied by the title is meant to stand in contrast to the ugly reality painted by his story, making the whole story more of a spoof on social ideals. Just a thought Quote
studentyoung Posted November 5, 2007 at 09:14 AM Report Posted November 5, 2007 at 09:14 AM Edit: Or maybe the romance implied by the title is meant to stand in contrast to the ugly reality painted by his story, making the whole story more of a spoof on social ideals. Just a thought:) Bingo! Cheers! Quote
imron Posted November 5, 2007 at 03:58 PM Report Posted November 5, 2007 at 03:58 PM I got hints of some exciting themes, but I got no conclusion here. What do you guys think, what was this story about?I think that was really the point of the story. Similar in some ways to a Chinese painting, where sometimes what the artist doesn't paint is just as important as what he/she does paint. We are left to fill in the details with our mind. The purpose is not to provide you with a complete packaged story, but rather to give you something to think about and ponder over. If he had provided a full story, it wouldn't make for much discussion Quote
gato Posted November 6, 2007 at 07:38 AM Author Report Posted November 6, 2007 at 07:38 AM Thought I posted this earlier, but maybe not: 春 can mean love or lust when used in various words. For example, 思春 = longing for someone 怀春 = falling in love 卖春 = to engage in prostitution. Quote
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