Cursive Scripts

[Altair]

I have long had the fantasy that I would be able to read Chinese calligraphy and so eventually sought out a book on Chinese cursive writing. The one I found, CHINESE CURSIVE SCRIPT: An Introduction to Handwriting in Chinese has proved excellent, though perhaps slightly beyond my abilities and patience.

One of the questions this book has stimulated for me is how do Chinese people learn cursive scripts themselves? Although I have found the differences between 楷书 kaishu, 行书 xingshu, and 草书 caoshu to be less than I feared, they are certainly not small.

The impression I have is that for at least several hundred characters, and maybe for as many as 1000, one must learn several distinct versions. How is this done, when it would seem that students would not have as many chances to read handwritten forms as printed forms in their regular study of textbooks?

I find it nearly impossible to retain a clear memory of stroke orders and proportions for regular characters, since I have no reason to use them in my daily activities. How can one do this for 行书 and 草书 without reading them and writing them everyday?

[Quest]

how do Chinese people learn cursive scripts themselves?

They don't, most just copy other people's writing styles and add some of their own flavors.

Most Chinese themselves have a hard time reading what's on some of paintings running cursive scripts.

[geek_frappa]

Most Chinese themselves have a hard time reading what's on some of paintings running cursive scripts.

furthermore, some make an effort to memorize paintings... and pretend like they know what it is...

[hparade]

yes, it's hard to recognize those characters on painting and calligraphy, some are easier, but some are really hard, those masters are so free to express and create their own styles....

[kentsuarez]

Most people write in a 行書 xing2shu1 semicursive style which I believe develops naturally after writing daily for many years, as you write faster and faster, and more sloppily. This is different from the 草書 cao3shu1, or true "cursive", which has even more ligature and abbreviation, as well as has many highly stylized, often non-intuitive abbreviations that must be learned. Cursive never really caught on, except among the literati artists, due to the difficulty of learning to read and write it. There are calligraphy books which show the cursive next to the 楷書 kai3shu1 regular, which are meant to be models for students to practice. The characters in these books are far more beautiful (and more worthy of copying) than the book you cited (that being said, it still is a very good, practical book).

<< How can one [learn stroke orders and forms] for 行书 and 草书 without reading them and writing them everyday?>>

You probably can't. But I'd say give it a try; join a calligraphy class, and learn the basics. You might find it enjoyable. Some find it relaxing, like yoga, and you can do half an hour of it each morning while listening to classical Chinese music and sipping green tea. You might get hooked!

[shandongcn]

Actually, Chinese calligraphy needs special tool, which is brush. However, Nowadays, Chinese people are using pencils, pens and ball pens. And when Chinese primary students start writting , they write step by step following the teachers , pencil in hand. They only learn how to write 楷书 from teacher. So,in my opinion, If you want to learn cursive scripts, 楷书 is fine.

[shibo77]

揩书 Standard script, it is not a cursive style. It is the standard style ti printing. Before the Republic, everything was printed in 揩书 Standard script. The script in Chinese that you see on the computer now, became popular with more and more printed materials.

Right! At the present, most people write with pencils and pens. The closest thing to calligraphy would be perfecting writing with a fountain pen. It would be written in 揩书Standard scirpt of course. Real calligraphy is done with special tools, just as the feathered pen or sharpie marker in calligraphy with the Latin script. Brushes are used with Chinese of course.

Most learn to use brushes from 3rd or 4th grade. Though it is taught with the 揩书Standard script, so technically, it is only the teaching of how to write with a brush, not true cursive calligraphy.

When I first learnt true calligraphy, I studied at Saturday school in a calligraphy class. The teacher was great and we did not start learning with the 楷书Standard script. But we started learning to write in the semi-cursive 行书Running script. 行书 Running script was used to jot fast notes. It is not the true style of handwriting before 1911. We had to learn character by character, because we were young. But before 1911, people would use the brush in their daily lives, and simply start with the 楷书Standard script, taught in school. By their teenage years, one would have developed a unique writing style, 行书Running script would have been perfected at about 18 years of age. Finally, true cursive 草书Grass script would have been perfected somewhere after the mid 30's. True cursive is incomprehensible for a lot of young people. One's writing style simply changes as one writes more and more. But remember, this was pre-1911. Today, calligraphy is actually taught. And most of the time, they are taught character by character. Of course, learning to use the brush is the first step. Whichever script you want to learn is all up to you. I could choose to learn Gothic or Roman or Italic, whichever that I wished. But the 楷书Standard script is generally recommended as the first step.

I hope this helped!

- Shibo

[shandongcn]

I agree with shibo.

[ever00t]

have long had the fantasy that I would be able to read Chinese calligraphy and so eventually sought out a book on Chinese cursive writing.

To be honest,i personally think for any non-Chinese speakers who'd like to learn Chinese however ,you are required to learn the 'Proper Chinese' including it's Proper handwriting and stuff.

In a way the Script Chinese somehow is absolutely incorrect Chinese handwriting according to the Official Chinese releases.If you are going to learn those 'Incorrect Chinese handwriting' before you have completely recognized the Official Chinese handwriting,guess what will happen ?You are going to blow it perhaps.I'm not kidding you.

However,as a matter of fact,the Script Chinese handwriting is being used in Chinese community is due to 2 main factors-->

1. Since the Script Chinese handwring is incorrect Chinese so it's not inexcusable that you are seeing different variations from elsewhere,simply because everyone makes different mistakes from the Standard Chinese handwriting hence the different variations.

2. The calligraphists,one of the most important sources to promote those 'incorrect Chinese handwriting' however,they are artisticlly performance.We sometimes admire them for performing such remarkable miracles but keep it in mind ,they are not the correct Chinese handwriting at all.

Additionally,in Any formal business you should strongly avoid using Script handwriting , a Contract,for example.

Take it as a joke if you are expecting to figure what would it be your own style of Chinese Script handwriting ? First learn Proper Chinese ,and sooner or later you are going to lose patience writing them one by one and start to make mistakes ,the more mistakes the more impressive effect, there you go,beautiful Chinese Script handwriting.

[Altair]

Thanks for all the responses. I think I should have been clearer about a few things, however.

My question was mostly about how Chinese is written in practical contexts, not about specialized scripts for artistic purposes. Prior to reading the responses, I had thought the link between the two was stronger than it has apparently become, but I am primarily interested in the script Chinese would use to write down notes, restaurant orders, or personal letters. If someone ever chooses to write me a real letter, rather than an email, how am I going to be able to read it?

In English contexts, I think people are expected to print when writing something on a flip chart during a meeting, but most private notes would be written in cursive writing, even within a business context. I would consider that writing a long personal note or letter in printed letters would look a little childish, even though some people do choose to do this. From what I have read, I had assumed that Chinese did not use kaishu forms to write notes down in pencil, but used some combination of xingshu and caoshu. I think that I had also read that using kaishu was considered somewhat childish for either Japanese or Chinese handwriting.

The book I cited claims to teach how to recognize handwritten Chinese and uses many examples from friends or acquaintances of the author, who are not calligraphers. Before I obtained the book, I would have thought that practical script would follow fairly predictable rules in linking and abbreviating strokes, but it seems that many characters have unique shapes that I would not have been able to decipher without the help of the book. They certainly look like characters that individuals would not have developed naturally by simply writing kaishu faster and faster. I think a few these examples have actually made into the character simplification in mainland China, such as 书.

I had thought that shapes like 书 and 车were familiar to users of traditional characters as handwritten forms appropriate to personal use. I certainly would never have been able to recognize the relationship between these shapes and the traditional characters without the help of the book.

In English contexts, cursive writing is taught after kids have used printed letters for a few years. Standard shapes are taught, but individuals do end up adding their own personal touches. In the U.S., I would say that things like personal signatures are usually not legible or intended to be legible. Most people can, however, manage to write legibly if someone “puts a gun to their head.”

Kentsuarez and Shibo,

What you both wrote seems to correspond best with what I had read before, but still leaves open how Chinese learn to write and recognize handwritten notes to each other. Where do modern people pick up the 行书 forms if they are not specifically taught? My book does seem to discuss many possible variations for most characters. As I read more and more, the variations do make much more sense; nevertheless, there seem many that I would have to learn one by one. I guess this would be easier if my Chinese were fluent and I were reading handwritten Chinese everyday, but it seems as if there would still be a gap that could only me filled by formal teaching in a class room setting.

[ala]

It comes pretty natural. As you said, most people don't write in standard Kaishu stroke by stroke, I don't at least (females are more likely to do this though for all their writings). It's impossible to take notes in class otherwise. When you have mastered the proper stroke order and can write the characters without thinking too much, it becomes natural (with the extra help of seeing parents' or older people's awesome handwritings) to connect certain strokes with a single squiggle, to skip certain details and cut through certain areas. As result there is also a lot of individual variation (since a standard Xingshu isn't really taught), so one usually writes more carefully in letters (or not as a cousin of mine recently did in his letter). Caoshu though is like art to me; there is a huge difference from Xingshu to Caoshu (the latter case emphasizing more on the impression/suggestiveness of the character).

It's easy to learn and imitate a semi-cursive script because Chinese characters recycle the same parts over and over. Even though some have unique shapes, most Chinese grown up in China would have enough exposure to them (from parents, from friends, etc) to recognize most. Not all imitate the same shapes though. Nevertheless there is a certain amount of "heuristics" that make all this quite natural.

[pazu]

ever00t, open your eyes! While the cursive scripts are different from your handwriting or the characters you see in a dictionary, they can never be classified as "INCORRECT".

[shibo77]

楷书Kai3Shu1 Standard script became the standard handwriting script these days with more and more computers, and printed materials. But flip open a book from the 60's or before, then both the standard handwriting, and printed materials are in 楷书Kai3Shu1. Nowadays, when first graders learn to write, they do not, at least in my school, learn to write 楷书Kai3Shu1, instead they learn to imitate the printed script that you see on the computer screen now. Mostly straight lines and placed neatly in a square. In Beijing, we call it 方块字fang1kuar4zir4 Square Characters. Similarly, English schoolchildren do not learn Times Roman first, they imitate the printed script, such as the Arial lettres you seen on the computer screen now. For example, "a" is not written with the serif. At around 3rd or 4th grade, we learn to use the fountain pen. Everyday I would come home full of ink on my hand...

That is when we start to learn the style of 楷书Kai3Shu1, the Standard script. About 4th, 5th, or 6th grade, we stop using pencil in school, only the fountain pen is used, with blue or black ink. Then when we enter Junior Secondary school, either 5th or 6th grade, most people have gotten rid of their original 方块字Square Characters completely, and are writing in beautiful 楷书. The more advanced students are already simplifying strokes, especially with 的 and 我. 楷书the Standard script would be the formal script to write with for the rest of their education. Although note-taking would be simplified further, developped by oneself, this is called 行书 the Running script. This, of course, is not standarised, just as students taking notes with English would not write their cursives in the same way. Though, in calligraphy, it is standardised, just as calligraphers writing in the Latin script use a standardised Cursive, Italic, Gothic...

And finally 草书the Grass script develops when one has wrote Chinese characters for about half a century.

Funny thing is that I have a friend who left China in 5th grade, and studied in Argentina. When he came back, he still wrote in 方块字Square Characters even though he was already 17!!

In daily writing, most people don't really pick up 行书, and the 行书 style today is written with pen and pencil instead of brushes. It just occurs naturally to them, and as the commentators said before, some pick up from other friends, from family members, from celebrities.... I myself, picked up many styles from 江泽民... Afterwards I develop the characters more and more until it is only easily recognisable to myself. Hopefully not to sound arrogant, but I think an average writer of Chinese develops one's writing abilities much more than a person using a Latin script or even an Arabic script. One big reason is due to the amount of characters needed for daily writing, copared to Latin, Arabic alphabets, both capitals and minuscules.

For a student of Chinese, it's a great task to decipher, almost the same as deciphering, the "terrible" Chinese handwriting. They literally look like scribbles. And if you think that is a challenge, there are about 1 billion individual writing styles, aging from a 1st grader's 方块字Square Characters, to tadpole-like scribbles of the aged. Try reading my grandparent's lettres....

Calligraphy, that's different, then you would have to study how to write each character...

In summary, the sequence for most people:

方块字Square Characters>楷书Standard script>行书Running script>草书Grass script>天书(供上天堂用..)which evolves into some type of tadpole hieroglyph...

Though, I don't know how one might receive formal study on how to read handwritten Chinese. I would say, just practise writing them yourself, and others' style would come naturally.

I hope this helped!

- Shibo