Advice In Dating a Chinese Girl...

[technopapa4]

Hello,

I have stumbled my way into unfamiliar territory. I am an american man who finds himself very interested in a chinese girl that I work with. She is very shy and quiet, studies virtually all the time for the CPA exams, and has been in the US about 7 years. I have gone to dinner and a movie with her, lunch a few times, and had her over to my place for dinner one evening. I love her company, think she is incredibly beautiful, and very smart. However, I don't know enough about Chinese culture to know how to proceed. Everything so far has been ULTRA-polite, and I just don't know how to break the barrier into a bit more informal and comfortable territory. I don't know what she expects from me. She seems to like doing things with me, but I don't know if I'm just a friend to her, or possibly more in the future?

The problem is that I find myself doing ALL of the work of asking to do things, and initiating everything. Normally, with an American girl, I would assume that she isn't that interested if she makes virtually no effort to make plans with me herself, but then again, an American girl would also do other things to avoid/ignore me, which this girl is NOT doing. There's just a level of politeness and propriety that I'm just not used to.

I don't mind going slowly toward a dating/boyfriend relationship, but I'm also falling pretty hard for her and am fearing for my own heartbreak if I'm wasting my time. I guess I'm just looking for a bit of dating insite into what she might be expecting from me. I really like her and don't want to move too quickly if that would scare her off, but also don't want to wait too long if that would make her think I'm not interested. HELP! LOL

Thanks,

TechnoPapa4

[cdn_in_bj]

The problem is that I find myself doing ALL of the work of asking to do things, and initiating everything.

This is normal here in China - the guy is expected to do everything, from initiating the "date", to making the necessary preparations (restaurant choice and reservation, buying tickets, etc.) and ensuring that the date goes smoothly. The ideal date from the girl's point of view is one where she doesn't have to worry about or do anything besides be ready and be there (or just be ready, if you're picking her up). This fits into the big picture here of the guy being expected to provide for and take care of the girl.

That said, you're in the US and not in China. And she's been there for 7 years already. But maybe she hasn't had much dating experience in the US and only knows the "China way". Does she have many other friends in the US? Maybe you should take her on some dates where some sort of activity is involved, such as sports or maybe even a cooking class. That might be a new experience for her, yet at the same time it shouldn't be enough to scare her off. I personally always found movies to be a bit awkward for dates. Anyways, it would seem to me that the fact she hasn't declined your offers means things are going well.

[wangbang]

You're really making this harder than it should be. Why do so many people insist on treating dating a Chinese girl any differently than normally? If you want to clarify the situation, tell her how you feel, and ask her how she feels. Seriously, that's all it takes.

[Pravit]

Why do so many people insist on treating dating a Chinese girl any differently than normally? If you want to clarify the situation, tell her how you feel, and ask her how she feels. Seriously, that's all it takes.

Seconded! Sometimes knowing a little bit about Chinese culture does more harm than good, I think.

[technopapa4]

cdn_in_bj,

I agree...activity dates are probably the best way to go, and movie dates are awkward. She doesn't have many local friends here, so getting her out to meet more people would be a good thing to.

wangbang,

You have a good point too, and you're right, I do make dating harder than it needs to be. Did I mention that I'm bad at dating AMERICAN women too? Part of it also comes from the fact that I like her so much more than most American women I meet. It's clouding my judgement and making me overcomplicate everything.

I just don't want to wreck things before they have a chance by making an unknown social blunder.

[elina]

I agree with the above, if you love her, tell her. And cdn_in_bj's idea is good, take part in some activities together, where involved some other people, which can make the approach more naturally.

[gato]

Please read these posts below by simonlaing and shanghaikai, our resident relationship experts. Let us know how it goes.

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/1867-good-chinese-news-search-engines8&highlight=date

How do I tell a Chinese girl that I like her?

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/12148-what-is-considered-a-date&highlight=date

What is considered a date?

http://www.chinese-forums.com/showthread.php?p=117007#post117007

Relations between boys and girls

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/14335-advice-i-like-a-chinese-guy&highlight=guy

advice: I like a Chinese guy

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/14370-any-chance-for-serious-relationship-with-chinese-girls&highlight=girl

Any chance for serious relationship with Chinese girls?

[studentyoung]

Part of it also comes from the fact that I like her so much more than most American women I meet. It's clouding my judgement and making me overcomplicate everything.

I think I can understand how you feel, although I’m a girl. However, the more you care about her in such a way, the more easily you might lose her, I’m afraid.

(唉~ ~！”……不是不明白，太想看清楚，反而让你的面目变得模糊；越在乎的人，越小心安抚，反而连一个吻也留不住。……”)

Cheers!

[muyongshi]

Not to thread hijack here but the bloody heck is it like that?????

[shanghaikai]

Holy cow, when did I become a relationship expert?

Anyway, to echo the above, both cdn and wang have good points. I haven't a clue what you guys have been chatting about this entire time but start talking about your individual and mutual goals, dreams, aspirations, plans, etc. Tell her you like her or are interested in her, clearly. I don't know the girl so I can't really give you specific advice that might befit her particular personality but the general idea of being honest (without being desperate) about your feelings should be fine. Hold her hand, look her in the eye, smile, and tell her you really like her.

Then feel free to look away, chuckle, shyly squirm, or laugh at yourself and what you just said. In other words, hey, its okay to reveal that you were nervous as hell. Its usually pretty charming to the girls, because it makes you human, falliable, and ultimately someone who they can influence and fix. It makes them feel important, and knowing that someone is revealing their soft underside of a weakness to you shows a touching amount of trust.

Hold her hand, man.

If you haven't gotten to that point of physical intimacy, I'd have to ask how long you guys have been "dating." Have you guys hugged? Surprise her with flowers sometime.

If you want to be a bit more cautious, you can just tell her you're interested in her and ask if she's interested in you. "So yeah, uh, if you haven't, uh, noticed by, uh, now, I really find your attractive and, uh, interesting, yeah. Omigod, I'm burning up *wipes sweat*. So, like, uh, I was, you know, wondering about how you, uh, feel about this--I MEAN, ME! Yeah, uh, me. You know, do you feel the same way...and all? Yeah?"

If she smiles, blushes, giggles, nods her head a bit, says yeah, whatever, then feel free to jump up and scream and rejoice. If that's your style, I mean. It's a great tension defuser and will instantly let you two laugh as you accept that you guys have officially moved to the next step.

Now all of that is a rosy picture I've painted for you, and it may be totally incongruous to your personality or her's but man, just go for it. If you're certain she's the gal you want in your life now or forever, just let her know. Within your heart, you know what you have to do, just grab your b@lls and get to it!

Good luck and report back on how it went! Cheers, mate.

[technopapa4]

Well, Shanhaikai, you seem to be a pretty good expert to me.

If you want to be a bit more cautious, you can just tell her you're interested in her and ask if she's interested in you. "So yeah, uh, if you haven't, uh, noticed by, uh, now, I really find your attractive and, uh, interesting, yeah. Omigod, I'm burning up *wipes sweat*. So, like, uh, I was, you know, wondering about how you, uh, feel about this--I MEAN, ME! Yeah, uh, me. You know, do you feel the same way...and all? Yeah?"

It's as if you know me already. That would probably be EXACTLY what I sound like.

Your advice is great. I've hinted at the above with her, but I'm still not sure how it's going. I think you're right, it will probably take more than the hinting.

The main problem is that she is studying VERY hard for her CPA exams, and it's probably the wrong time for me to be trying to get her attention. I don't want to distract her, but by the same token I would love to spend more time with her. She says she likes me and my company, but is not offering times we can see each other, and uses the studying as the reason, so I really don't know what she's thinking as far as I'm concerned. Also, not sure if this is the time to ask her.

[cdn_in_bj]

Holy cow, when did I become a relationship expert?

Well, at the very least I think you'd make an awesome wingman. Let me know if you ever make it to BJ.

The main problem is that she is studying VERY hard for her CPA exams, and it's probably the wrong time for me to be trying to get her attention. I don't want to distract her, but by the same token I would love to spend more time with her.

Ok, so when are her exams? And if I remember correctly for CPA it's not just one exam, it's a series of them? Have you asked her about how her preparations are going? If this is stressing her out, it should help to talk about it. And maybe there's even something you can do to help her study? My best advice is to be supportive and a good friend during this time. As for the timing of taking it to the next level, you need to decide this for yourself as every person and every situation is different. But even if you decide that now is not the right time, I don't think it'll be a problem for you to continue to take her out - it won't necessary be a distraction, just more like a break. Besides, everyone needs a break from work, right? Good luck!

[technopapa4]

Ok, so when are her exams? And if I remember correctly for CPA it's not just one exam, it's a series of them? Have you asked her about how her preparations are going? If this is stressing her out, it should help to talk about it. And maybe there's even something you can do to help her study? My best advice is to be supportive and a good friend during this time. As for the timing of taking it to the next level, you need to decide this for yourself as every person and every situation is different. But even if you decide that now is not the right time, I don't think it'll be a problem for you to continue to take her out - it won't necessary be a distraction, just more like a break. Besides, everyone needs a break from work, right? Good luck!

You are correct, CDN...the exams are in multiple parts. She is taking one part in a week, and the other parts January and February of next year. We have talked about her studies enough for me to know that she is somewhat burned out. I do agree that everyone needs a break, but she doesn't seem to give it to herself. She feels guilty if she doesn't spend most of her off time studying. So, while part of me wants to give her a break, and take her out for some fun, the other part of me is worried that if I push that issue too much she will see me as a distraction and not want to hang out anymore at all. Unfortunately, I don't feel that we have gotten to a comfortable point in our relationship (friend or otherwise) for me to be too pushy, despite the fact that I do worry for her being all work and no play.

[Lu]

I think this is a Chinese thing. If you are to study, you study not until you are too tired, but until you are done. Sleeping or eating, let alone fun or breaks or boyfriends, are completely secondary. Best support her now, bring her food (if you think that's appropriate), call her up once in a while to remind her to take care of herself (very Chinese thing to do), and promise her you two are to celebrate big time after the first part of her exams are done next week.

[technopapa4]

I think this is a Chinese thing. If you are to study, you study not until you are too tired, but until you are done. Sleeping or eating, let alone fun or breaks or boyfriends, are completely secondary. Best support her now, bring her food (if you think that's appropriate), call her up once in a while to remind her to take care of herself (very Chinese thing to do), and promise her you two are to celebrate big time after the first part of her exams are done next week.

Your words give me hope, and I like your ideas of how to support her during the tests. I was also thinking of making her a necklace (I like crafts and art) with the chinese word for good fortune/luck, and giving that to her before the test as a little "good luck" gift. Just a little something to let her know that I'm cheering her on.

[shanghaikai]

I think this is one of those situations where you do have to be a bit selfish insofar as confirming whether or not she has some genuine interest in you. The last thing you want to do, for your own emotional and mental health, is to support her through the next three months, cheer her on, and try to be that wonderfully thoughtful "friend" only to find out at the end that she really just doesn't like you "that way."

There's two parts to this. First, you need to understand that you can assertain your prospects without giving her pressure so long as you do it right. Second, you have to accept the result, whatever it may be. If it is negative, and you can't let go, that's when you're going to end up actively or passively pressuring her. Naturally, combined with the stress of the CPA exams, that's just going to elevate you into royal @$$ status.

This isn't about games, but it is about having enough self-confidence to not take things too personally. Judging by what you've said so far, I do reckon you'll take it pretty hard if things turn bad. That's perfectly normal and reasonable, but what I'm advising here is in hopes of minimizing any unnecessary pain that results from continually investing in a lost cause.

That is, IF she's a lost cause. For all I know, she may be jocking you hard (did I just say that?) but you need to know for your own good, especially if you're pretty much putting all your eggs into one basket. Like you've said, you have and are falling hard for her. I wouldn't want you to pour time, money, energy, and emotion into this and get burned.

There are many ways to still hang out and move forward a budding relationship without disrespecting her other priorities.

As others have said above, you could bring her a meal to share together for a short break. The key here is to keep it short and sweet, with you excusing yourself so she "can get back to studying because you want her to do well." Control the tempo, but do be aware if she's hinting towards wanting a longer break to relax with you. From what you say, however, that sounds unlikely, so get in, make her smile, make her laugh, fill her stomach, and then say "see you next time" as you peck her on the cheek, twinkle your eye, and throw out a "jia you!" ("jee-ah yo!' if you're not pinyin literate) on your way out the door...

...but before you step off that doorstep, you open that door right back up, lean in, catch her eye, look into it, and say "you are so incredibly cute, I miss you already!' before throwing her that winning smile, maybe a wink, and skip to your car.

Well, I may be getting ahead of myself, but the above is either something you can do once you know she's got something for you or, if you can't bring yourself to simply ask her if she's keen on you outright and you're content to continue the chase without confirmation, you want to wisely up the ante. The idea here is to make your attraction and interest in her so obvious that she has to give you some sort of yay or nay sign soon. I would even completely avoid using any terminology related to "friendship." Don't ever say you're her friend or that you're just being a friend. No, I'd recommend you cleanly saying "hey, I like you and I hope we can date sometime" so there are no misunderstandings.

Trust me, women are notorious for playing stupid (or are just that oblivious) about the motivations of a male companion. You have to have enough confidence in yourself to say what you want. Be assertive without being creepy. Be earnest without being too nonchalant. Be easy without being a doormat. I'm sure you can manage that.

Again, we expect updates!

[cdn_in_bj]

I think this is one of those situations where you do have to be a bit selfish insofar as confirming whether or not she has some genuine interest in you. The last thing you want to do, for your own emotional and mental health, is to support her through the next three months, cheer her on, and try to be that wonderfully thoughtful "friend" only to find out at the end that she really just doesn't like you "that way."

This is classic Ladder Theory (for those that want to know more, there is a fairly obviously-named website that explains the theory in detail). I myself have ended up on the "friends ladder" or "big brother" on several occassions back home, so I can understand why you bring this up. However, I think the OP, even though he is in the US, may be at a lower risk of this.

Here in China, if a guy asks a girl out, and especially does so on a regular occassion, I think there won't be any question about his interest in the girl. It's not yet like in the west where it's considered perfectly normal for guys and girls to be best friends/good buddies and nothing more, and that's often how the confusion (and the resulting hurt) comes about there. It sounds like the OP's girl in question is more like a traditional Chinese girl, who I'm guessing has not yet completely adopted western attitudes towards friendships with the opposite sex. But I could be totally wrong.

Trust me, women are notorious for playing stupid (or are just that oblivious) about the motivations of a male companion.

True, and I do agree that the scenario you brought up is something he should be prepared for, and defend against.

[shanghaikai]

Haha, yes, I don't want the poor guy to get kicked in the head, off the ladder, and INTO THE ABYSS!

But seriously, I do think most women, regardless of what they profess, respect a man who has a certain amount of assertiveness. From what I have read so far, he's doing a good job being the "nice guy" as is, but it almost never hurts to simply be forthright with one's intentions. To be a nice guy that is revealed to have wanted more later when it is too late gives the impression of someone who had ulterior motives. It makes you look weak, even manipulative.

Women also respect confidence (but of course not "over-confidence"). This means having the confidence to know and say what you want as well as the confidence to be okay with rejection because you know you're still attractive to someone out there. A man has to value himself and has to see the value in himself before hoping some girl sees it in him.

[technopapa4]

You are all making some very good points for me to consider.

I think this is one of those situations where you do have to be a bit selfish insofar as confirming whether or not she has some genuine interest in you. The last thing you want to do, for your own emotional and mental health, is to support her through the next three months, cheer her on, and try to be that wonderfully thoughtful "friend" only to find out at the end that she really just doesn't like you "that way."

But seriously, I do think most women, regardless of what they profess, respect a man who has a certain amount of assertiveness. From what I have read so far, he's doing a good job being the "nice guy" as is, but it almost never hurts to simply be forthright with one's intentions. To be a nice guy that is revealed to have wanted more later when it is too late gives the impression of someone who had ulterior motives. It makes you look weak, even manipulative.

That is the tenuous line that I walk. Be the "nice guy" or assertive? I always gravitate to being the "nice guy" because that is pretty much my personality. It is rare for me to be overly assertive about anything, especially in dating situations, when I'm really more concerned with the other person's wants/needs, rather than my own. So the friendship ladder is something that I've climbed many times, and thus far, have always fallen off of. I definitely see the value of being upfront with her, and letting her know that I'm wanting more than friendship, but from my own shyness standpoint, it's a tough thing to do. Especially since bringing it out in the open could possibly end the whole thing, if she's really not interested and is now uncomfortable around me (Been there before). So it comes down to how long am I willing to torture myself. LOL.

Here in China, if a guy asks a girl out, and especially does so on a regular occassion, I think there won't be any question about his interest in the girl. It's not yet like in the west where it's considered perfectly normal for guys and girls to be best friends/good buddies and nothing more, and that's often how the confusion (and the resulting hurt) comes about there. It sounds like the OP's girl in question is more like a traditional Chinese girl, who I'm guessing has not yet completely adopted western attitudes towards friendships with the opposite sex. But I could be totally wrong.

I would really like this to be true, because it would mean that she's already considered the idea of "more than friends" with me, and at least hasn't run away screaming. LOL It is very possible that we have been "dating" in her mind all along, and that all of my mental anguish has been needless. I do think that when the time is right, I will bring up how I feel, and see if she feels the same. I believe in being upfont and honest, I just don't always have the b@ll$ to do it.

[shanghaikai]

Being assertive and being a nice guy are not mutually exclusive, brother man. Being shy does not make one a nice guy or does a nice guy have to be shy.

Anyway, I do think you've heard what we're saying but I'm not sure if you'll act on them. Naturally, we don't even know if you have to or not. We just hope that if things go south, you won't be more devastated than need be.

Be fair to yourself, don't fall into the trap of hovering around her all the time, thinking that being friends will be enough to satisfy you when you really want more. You'll forever be unsatisfied and ultimately bitter if she never realizes how great you are, jumps into your arms, and has your children. Cheers, mate.