既。。。以後

[82riceballs]

Hey, I'm wondering if "即。。。以後" is a grammar structure. I found it in the sentence: 曹丕即魏王位以後，有人告發。。。

thanks

[fireball9261]

继...(王)位以後 is "after x has inherited the title (of king)" in your sentence. It is different from your original phrase of 既。。。以後. I think you need to come up with another example. Also, 槽丕's 槽 should be 曹 for the surname.

[82riceballs]

sorry about the typo... i will change that right away.

i noticed another typo: 既 should be 即. sorry.

btw, here's the website where I found the sentence above:

相煎和太急！

It's in the first line of the last post.

[fireball9261]

即 also has about the same meaning as 继 in this case. It's like "enthroned".

[Quest]

The verb is 即位/takeup/start...position. 魏王 is inserted to explain what "位"/position. 以后 is the preposition/post-position "after".

[82riceballs]

thanks!

[skylee]

相煎和太急！

何！

[82riceballs]

oops!!!!! hehe... i'm 馬大哈 today

[hhjk9901]

即位 is not same as 继位. The first one emphasize 'take' the position, the last one emphasize 'inherit' the position.

Tom will take the title Duke. [即位]

The eldest son will inherit the title Duke. [继位]

also: The eldest sone will take the title Duke (from his father).

即X位 take the position/title of X

即王位 take the position of Lord

即皇位 take the position of Emperor = coronate/enthrone 加冕/登基

丕即魏王位以後 is not a grammar structure. This sentence means:

After Cao Pi take the position of Lord of Wei.

[fireball9261]

即位 is not same as 继位. The first one emphasize 'take' the position, the last one emphasize 'inherit' the position.

True. That is why I said they were about the same thing, and I did not say they were the same thing. I also wonder whether 即 & 继 were interchangeable at one time like some of the words that had similar pronouciations.

[skylee]

I also wonder whether 即 & 继 were interchangeable at one time like some of the words that had similar pronouciations.

Their pronunciations are very different in Cantonese.

[Quest]

I don't think 即位 is used in Cantonese.

[fireball9261]

As I said 即 and 继 sounded similar. In Chinese, many similar sounded words could also be used interchangeably in the ancient time. When I said similar, I do not mean necessarily the same tones. For example: 花 and 華 were supposed to 通 (able to be used interchangeably) in the ancient time, and they do not have the same tones. Therefore, I have this question.

[skylee]

花 and 華 were supposed to 通 (able to be used interchangeably) in the ancient time

I agree with this. The verse "多情應笑我　早生華髮" is an example.

[82riceballs]

多情應笑我　早生華髮

what is that supposed to mean?

[fireball9261]

多情應笑我　早生華髮

The passionate should laugh at me for I have grey hair early.

Here, "華髮" probably means salt and peppered hair (mixture of grey and black hair that looks like you have salt and pepper on your hair) -- Thus, it looks flowery in the Chinese sense as in 花花世界 (花 implies various). I think that's what skylee meant.

[skylee]

Here, "華髮" probably means salt and peppered hair (mixture of grey and black hair that looks like you have salt and pepper on your hair) -- Thus, it looks flowery in the Chinese sense as in 花花世界 (花 implies various). I think that's what skylee meant.

Well it just means that the hair has turned grey. In Cantonese "華" is "wa4" and "花" is "fa1" (very different pronunciations). But when we learnt the poem (it is such a famous poem) we were taught that here "華" was the same as "花". I wonder if teachers nowadays teach students the same way. Actually when I learnt putonghua at university and talked about this poem, our Beijing teacher did not know that "華" = "花" here. But she came back the next lesson and confirmed that I was right. [PS - it also showed that teaching Putonghua and teaching Chinese are not identical.]

In Taipei there is a cheap hotel 華華大飯店. Its English name is Hotel Flowers. And thanks to learning old poems we know why.

[studentyoung]

Quote:

Originally Posted by skylee

多情應笑我　早生華髮

what is that supposed to mean?

这是一个倒装句，正常的顺序应该是“神游故国，应笑我多情，早生华发”。意思是说，如果周瑜重游这个三国古战场，一定会笑我太多愁善感，而早早地生出了白了。

http://cache.baidu.com/c?word=%B6%E0%C7%E9%3B%D3%A6%3B%D0%A6%3B%CE%D2%2C%D4%E7%3B%C9%FA%3B%BB%AA%B7%A2&url=http%3A//zhidao%2Ebaidu%2Ecom/question/15854736%2Ehtml&p=9f7ad41086cc43b318be9b7e0d44&user=baidu

It means "If General Zhou yu could come back this ancient battlefield again, he might tease me who is so passionate to have grey hair at my early age." We Chinese people believe someone, who is so passionate or think too much, will grow grey or even white hair, though he might be at his early age.

Cheers!

[82riceballs]

thanks, fireball, skylee, and studentyoung!

[hhjk9901]

True. That is why I said they were about the same thing, and I did not say they were the same thing. I also wonder whether 即 & 继 were interchangeable at one time like some of the words that had similar pronouciations.

No, they cannot be interchangeable like 花 and 华 in any way. They are absolutely two characters with different meaning.

即 means [take] and 继 means [inherit] or [succeed to]. Maybe sometime a man who [inherit] the Lord is the one who [take] the position of the Lord, but each of them have the different meaning which are emphasized particularly on rhetoric.