道教和山水画

[dalaowai]

道教什么时候开始影响山水画？

多谢！

[fireball9261]

I thought it could be Wei or Jing dynasties for sure. It could be as early as Han dynasty because Dao Jiao already formed in the middle of Han dynasty. My bet is more on Jing dynasty because people at that time are very into Dao Jiao and the stories of Sheng Xian (immortals) and their presence in the mountains.

[Han-tiger]

"I thought it could be Wei or Jing dynasties for sure"

Here the "jing" should be "jin" (晋).

[fireball9261]

Correct. It's Jin Dynasty. My pinyin mistake.

[studentyoung]

I thought it could be Wei or Jing dynasties for sure. It could be as early as Han dynasty because Dao Jiao already formed in the middle of Han dynasty.

Sorry, but I think Daoism was formed at the end of East Han Dynasty, by Zhang Daoling, as some kind of religion.

东汉末年，在蜀中鹤鸣山（今四川省大邑县境内），张陵（又称张道陵）倡导五斗米道（因信徒入教必须交五斗米故名之）。后一，倡导导道教的张陵，被称为张天师，被尊为道教的创始者。

http://cache.baidu.com/c?word=%B5%C0%BD%CC%3B%D0%CE%B3%C9&url=http%3A//zhidao%2Ebaidu%2Ecom/question/12978224%2Ehtml&p=9d3bc64ad6c211a05afbd76d490d&user=baidu

My bet is more on Jing dynasty because people at that time are very into Dao Jiao and the stories of Sheng Xian (immortals) and their presence in the mountains.

Just add more suppliment.

Both Daoism and Buddhism well developed in Jin Dynasty, and talking about Daoism, Buddhism and philosophy became one of the fashions among royal families, officials, scholars and celebrities at that time. The landscape paintings by the famous painter Gu Kaizhi 顾恺之 in Jin Dynasty are good examples to show how Daoism affected the landscape painting at that time.

Zong Bing宗炳 was the painter in the Northern and Southern Dynasty(南北朝) who clearly mentioned the relationship between Daoism and Chinese traditional landscape painting (山水画) at first. In his article about painting theory, "the preface of the landscape painting《画山水序》", he clearly pointed out that painting landscape aims at “purifying one’s mind and discovering the philosophy in Daoism 澄怀观道”.

中国山水画的出现与道家思想的流行有着极深刻的内在联系，这一点可由公元五世纪中叶宗炳所著《画山水序》来加以证明。在这篇奠定中国山水画理论基础的早期文献里，宗炳指出了山水画的宗旨在于“澄怀观道”，因为“圣人以神法道而贤者通，山水以形媚道而仁者乐”，所以描绘山水如果技巧得当的话，能达到应目会心的效果，而“应会感神，神超理得”，绘画中的山水甚至能够起到真山真水所不能起到的畅神最佳功能。

http://www.blogcn.com/u3/1/18/rouroujiaojiaozhu/blog/58466302.html

Cheers!

[dalaowai]

Thank you all for your replies! It helped alot!

[fireball9261]

Sorry, but I think Daoism was formed at the end of East Han Dynasty, by Zhang Daoling, as some kind of religion.

What was that so different from my reply of the middle of Han dynasty? Han dynasty includes both Western and Eastern Han. Also, the Daoist religion was already forming around the time of Liu Xiang (towards the early Western Han period) when he collected and edited the first group of writings of the Dao Jiao. Zhang Daoling formed one of the sects, but his group was not the earliest Dao Jiao. It was just one of the more famous sects.

[studentyoung]

Sorry, but I think Daoism was formed at the end of East Han Dynasty, by Zhang Daoling, as some kind of religion.

What was that so different from my reply of the middle of Han dynasty? Han dynasty includes both Western and Eastern Han. Also, the Daoist religion was already forming around the time of Liu Xiang (towards the early Western Han period) when he collected and edited the first group of writings of the Dao Jiao.

黄老之学的学术特征是道、法结合，兼采百家，用道家的哲理论证法家的政治主张。西汉后期著名的思想家刘向深受黄老思想的影响，他的德主刑辅的教化思想、清静无为的为政策略，是对黄老思想的演绎和深化。这些思想有宝贵的现代价值，可以为我们的社会管理提供有益的启示。

http://cache.baidu.com/c?word=%CE%F7%BA%BA%2C%C1%F5%3B%CF%F2%2C%BB%C6%3B%C0%CF&url=http%3A//www%2Ecqvip%2Ecom/qk/82127X/200501/11728766%2Ehtml&p=882a91409c904eae5bbfde20455490&user=baidu

This Liu xiang 刘向 you mentioned in Western Han period was a thinker deeply affected by 黄老学, which does have close relationship with Taoist thoughts., but 黄老学itself is just some kind of philosophical school (哲学流派), not some kind of religion. 黄老学 itself is neither Taoist thoughts道家思想 nor Taoism道教. The writings he collected and edited were very likely about Taoist thoughts道家思想, but not writings of Taoism道教.

Cheers!

[fireball9261]

I disagree because many of his collections were related to the practices of later Daoist religion and not the Daoist philosophy. There were especially distinct Daoist legends of immortals in those writings that were worshiped in the Daoist religion; i.e. Dao Jiao. However, our disagreements are more related to the history and forming of the Dao Jiao, and we both agree that the Dao Jiao influences on the Chinese Scenic paintings probably started around Jin dynasty. I would like to agree to disagree about the formal starting point of Dao Jiao.