Living in urban Taiwan?

[leather_strap]

Next year I'll be living in Kaohsiung and was wondering if anyone would give me a little perspective. I already know that US$1=NT$32 more or less, however that by itself doesn't tell me anything too useful. What does a 1 or 2 bedroom apartment rent for a month, how much is a bus/taxi ride, how much for a regular meal at a restaurant, what is the average and/or middle-class wages for a month, etc. Really anything along these lines or any other day-to-day expenses would be helpful.

[Lu]

Prices are for Taipei, I've never lived in Gaoxiong, but it'll probably be similar there or slightly cheaper.

Bus rides are typically NT$15, unless it's for a really long distance. MRT is usually NT$20-30.

Taxi rides start at NT$70; I pay about NT$250 to get from one end of Taipei to the other (or maybe it's a bit more now, prices went up a few weeks ago); not-too-long taxi rides will cost between NT$100 and 200.

A cheap meal at a food stand at the night market will cost about NT$100, maybe a bit more. A nice meal in a nice restaurant is up to NT$300; more expensive meals are also widely available. It also depends on what you eat: a Chinese breakfast can be had for less than NT$50, an American breakfast can set you back NT$200 or more.

The minimum wage is about NT$17,000 per month; average wage about NT$35,000 per month; teaching English and similar foreigners' jobs make between maybe NT$50,000 up to NT$100,000 if you're lucky, good, and work a lot. (Expats and the like can expect to make a lot more.)

Housing prices are highest in Taipei, I've been told. Single rooms can be found for maybe NT$5000 for something dirty and small up to NT$15,000 for something big, new, clean and nice. Don't really know about apartments. Cheap hotels and minsu are typically NT$800-1000 per night.

I hope this helps, let me know if you have any more questions!

[lpascoe]

I don't live in Kaohsiung anymore, but I only left about 2 months ago, so I should be able to help.

Apartment - I've heard you can get cheaper apartments in places like Fengshan (Kaohsiung County, but not that far from downtown area), 1 brm for 5000NT per month. A lot of foreigners have been moving to San Min District near Mintzu dollars and Heti Rd park. Lots of restaurants and cafes with outdoor seating, a park to run about. About 10,000NT per month should get you a 2 or 3 bedroom apartment in a very nice building. For not much more you can live in luxury near the art gallery which is one of the current boom areas.

You might have to pay for a guard fee (can't remember how much maybe a 1000 a month) and scooter parking(About 1000 per year). Utilities may or may not be included.

The bus costs 12NT to go pretty much anywhere, but it never runs on time (as in the bus is often late by more than 20 minutes). A cab from the airport to San Min district in the north used to cost me 330NT, but that was before the price increases. Cabs are everywhere and easy to hail. Most foreigners end up buying scooters. 2nd hand between 6000 and 20,000NT I guess, depending on the engine (50cc-125cc for scooters, motorbikes are more expensive). You can buy a new one for about 30,000NT up. I used to spend about 150NT on gas a week plus another 150NT once a month to change the oil.

Cheap food - a bowl of ganmian 30NT+, fried rice 50NT, lunch box 50NT+, veggies and rice at a buffet place 40NT, green/black/milk tea about 20NT for a big cup, mango milkshake 30 NT (I know it is out of season, but it is one of my favourites and one of the joys of living in Kaohsiung).

If you go to some of the cheaper cafes a sandwich and latte will cost about 100NT. Latte to go about 50-60 (double the price and much weaker at Starbucks if you ever make the mistake of going).

Western meals at bars and restaurants cost a lot more. Anything between around 150-600 per dish. 500ml glass of beer between 100 and 200, depending on what's in the glass. If you hit the bar at the right time, you might get it 2 for 1.

Hope that helps. If you have any other questions, ask quick... my head is starting to forget how to calculate in NT!

[leather_strap]

Here is a bit of a more peculiar question. In the Mainland (urban) I noticed that for actual purchasing power 2-3 RMB=$1(US). By this I mean that a soda that would cost me a dollar in the states, cost me usually between 2-3 kuai. I understand this is a bit of an estimating game but would anyone like to give it a shot?

[fireball9261]

It really depends where you are buying them. If you are buying the coke in a hotel or a nice restaurant, it might cost you a lot more. If you buy them from a local grocery store, it would be much cheaper. I generally go to a local grocery store close to my hotel to buy the drinks I want, like water, coke, tea, and canned coffee when I was in mainland China. I also took my laundry to local laundry shop instead of the hotel laundry shop. I forgot how much were the coke price, but I think you are right about the 2-3RMB = $1 U.S. However, I think you could probably get them cheaper if you go to the local grocery stores and buy the local brands. For example, the hotel charged me 20 RMB for a bottled water. However, I could get a very reputable Chinese brand of bottled water for about 2 RMB or a no so good one for about 1.5 RMB. They were almost 1/10 of what the hotels would charge. The hotel's price for the bottled water (Evian) is almost the same or a little higher than the price of an Evian water I would be getting in U.S. However, I could get the same Evian water in the grocery store for about 8 RMB -- that's about the same or below the price I would be paying in U.S. I think the outside laundry is about 1/3 or 1/4 of the price of the Hotel ones.

Any way, you need to check prices. There are a lot of grocery market around most of the hotels and on the side of the roads. Try to pick the ones that are more like a Western supermarket or one of the chain stores. They are more reputable and wouldn't use tap water in the used drink bottles. The prices are a little more than the street side vendors, but you probably wouldn't get water in re-used bottles or fake goods, etc. In addition, make sure the bottles were not re-used - seals broken, etc. If the stuff tastes weird, don't swallow! Also, you could ask help to identify some of the more reputable shops from the front desks. Many of them would help you. Even if they couldn't help you right there due to hotel regulations (the hotel wants to make your money), they could help you behind the manager's back if you make friends with them (remember tips or gifts are welcome by hotel workers and don't just give gifts to one person in a too publicly manner. If you just want to tip or give gifts to one person, do it in private.)

In addition, do not be afraid to ask for discounts in many situations. If you are a foreigner or a stranger to the area, many shop owners would automatically double or triple the prices. Negotiate prices are daily occurrences in mainland China, Taiwan, and Hong Kong. Don't be afraid to ask. The tricks about how much to cut from the asking price in different locations need to ask a local to help you, and those front desk people or other hotel workers could be of great help.

[yonglin]

I noticed that for actual purchasing power 2-3 RMB=$1(US). By this I mean that a soda that would cost me a dollar in the states, cost me usually between 2-3 kuai.

Well, for soda, this might be true.

However, for labour-intensive goods or services, your purchasing power is a lot higher. For instance, you can get a hair cut for 10 kuai, but you'd hardly get a hair cut in the US for $2-3, right? Similar for restaurant services: you can get a bowl of noodles or a basket of buns for 2-3 kuai, but you'd hardly get that much food in the US for a dollar.

I found that other things were almost as expensive or almost as expensive as in the west. Notably, coffee, dairy products and some hygiene products (like slightly nicer shampoo, for instance). Moreover, a lot of cheap consumption goods (say plastic household things) sell for about the same price in China and the West these days.

Thus, to make a somewhat accurate price comparison that would be useful at all (I think that most international price comparison indices are quite useless), it would be important to know what proportion of your income you usually spend on what kind of goods. Like, if you spend most of your income going to fancy cafes and the cinema, your cost of living in China wouldn't be much lower. If you spend most on your income on buying clothes and dvd's, it would.

Sorry for writing such a lengthy post about such a small matter. Sometimes, economists just can't help themselves.

[cdn_in_bj]

Here is a bit of a more peculiar question. In the Mainland (urban) I noticed that for actual purchasing power 2-3 RMB=$1(US).

It can vary from 7 RMB = 1 USD for luxury items (cars, brand-name clothing, etc.), to 1 RMB = 1 USD for services or goods with a high labour component, but a range of 2-4 RMB = 1 US is what I usually think in terms.

Also, as yonglin mentioned you may want to consider it in terms of your purchasing power, since if you're working here (in a non-expat situation) you won't be making the same that you would back home.

Lets say your annual salary in the US was $40k, and here you are making 80k RMB, then you'd divide the RMB prices by 2 (80k/40k = 2) and think of it in terms of US $ to get a sense of the relative affordability. For example, here I can get a haircut and wash at a good salon for 35 RMB. After applying the conversion factor, that works out to be 17.5 USD. Back home a haircut like this would cost much more (and not including tip either), so even though I can get a haircut for less than 35 RMB at many other places, it's still a good deal for me. On the otherhand, going to the cinema to watch a movie on a full-price day would cost 50-60 RMB. After "converting", it works out to be 25-30 USD, which is a lot more than what I'd pay back home to see a movie so it's less affordable here.

Interestingly enough, this also works for shopping at Ikea. I find that many Ikea products here are 1/2 to 2/3 cheaper than the same items back home.

So if you think in terms of affordability, and are making the minimum typical foreigner salary here, then most things should be just as affordable or even more so than back home. Of course, there are also things that are a lot less affordable, but those you can probably live without.

And to get back on topic, I think leather_strap is asking for a similar type of affordability analysis with Taiwan. Lu and lpascoe have provided some good data for this; the critical part is to determine what salary one would be making there compared to on the mainland, for the same type of job.

[leather_strap]

Lu, you explained that much better then I did. That's exactly what I'm looking for.

[Lu]

Lpascoe, I knew that Taipei is supposed to by expensive but my god, I never realized the rest of the country is that cheap! A one-bedroom appartment for half of what I pay for my taofang, meals for half of what you pay here...

leather strap, glad to be of help, and let me know if there's anything else you want to know.

[leather_strap]

Lu, do you think you could put some of those figures of yours into perspective the way that cdn_in_bj did? I'm really not quite sure as to what kind of purchasing power the US$ has in the general market?

How much is a bus/train ticket from Kaohsiung to Taipei? Are there boats that run across the strait to the Mainland, to Hong Kong, Japan, etc.?

[Lu]

I guess you can kind of figure out purchasing power by comparing the price of houses and food to the average income. I've never lived in the US, so I can't really compare purchase power there and here.

Apparently some people live on NT$17,000 a month, but I don't know how they do it. One could live on 35,000 a month, but not very comfortably. On twice that you could afford an apartment (maybe even a big apartment in Gaoxiong), eat out every day without paying too much attention to prices, shop a reasonable amount, and never worry about money.

A bus ticket TP-Gaoxiong would be a few hundred dollar, I think. A train ticket on the high-speed railway is NT$1500. Kind of expensive, but it's crazy fast, gets you there in an hour and a half. A normal train ticket is a lot cheaper (maybe 500? 700? dollars, haven't taken that train in a while) and takes half a day to get you there.

There might be boats to Japan, not sure. There are no direct boats to the mainland or Hong Kong. There is a boat to Jinmen (and other islands) sometimes, and there are boats from Jinmen to Xiamen on the mainland, but I'm not sure if those 'small three links' are open to foreigners, or only to local Jinmenese. In any case I wouldn't recommend a boat for long trips, unless you have a very strong stomach. I thought it would be a fun idea to take the boat to Jinmen, but ended up being sick for ten hours. Not fun.

[leather_strap]

I know this sounds like a peculiar question but it's for a grant proposal. I'll probably have to make this trip several times a week and therefore need an accurate price. Would someone be so kind as to tell me how much money/time is it to make a trip from National Sun Yat-Sen University Library 70 Lien-hai Rd., Kaohsiung 804 to Foguangshan Monastery, Dashu Township, Kaohsiung County 840? Are there any websites that would give me directions, much like mapquest.com works in the west?

Apart from this I am also curious as to how much it might cost to hire a tutor per/hour on a specialized topic such as Buddhism? This too is related to the aforementioned project.

[Lu]

I think the best way to find that out is to call either (or both) of those places and ask them how long it takes. They might even know which bus to take.

Don't know about Buddhist tutors either (my Taiwanese tutor is NT$400 per hour, if that helps). Maybe you'd best try and find a few, and ask them what they charge. Perhaps you can ask the monastery you mention, or call a few universities in Gaoxiong to see if they know some good ones.

[leather_strap]

I found out about the bus amount.

Do know that is NT$400 the average rate for a Taiwanese/Mandarin tutor there or not?