Not sure where to take self-study from here - Help please!

[ezpar]

Hi all,

I've been browsing the forums here for a day or two and it looks like there's a ton of great resources and people around. Anyway, I just completed one semester of Mandarin at a local university, and while I love the language and will continue to study the language, the class was just not worth $1,000+. In fact, I learned almost everything that I know so far on my own -- only the basic structure is from the class. I think I was pretty good at picking up the basics of Mandarin, probably the best in the class (other than the native speaker who was taking the class for garbage credits). It's frustrating that I put in a ton of effort and didn't see much from the professor's side.

However, I really need some guidance in figuring out where to go from this point. I have a Classics background, so reading & writing new languages is something I'm used to -- characters haven't given me a huge problem so far. I DO have trouble with listening and speaking, and I think this is what my next step should emphasize.

With that, would the Pimsleur course be the best route for me? I am moderately sure that I'm going to purchase the first comprehensive course. Or would something else be a better centerpiece of self-study? What materials would best supplement Pimsleur or something else? I've heard that vocab isn't a strong point of the course, so what vocabulary resources are good for a beginner with some experience? And is there anything else that I should focus on, other books to pick up? Stuff for grammar, characters? I'm really eager to continue my studies and pick up the slack a little bit.

Thank you so much -- any help would be much appreciated!

[dalaowai]

Are you currently living in China?

If not, the best thing you could do for self-study would be to go and live in China for a few years.

It is truly worth it and your Mandarin will improve leaps and bounds. There are so many bookstores in big cities, with many good books and resources for you to use in a self-study.

I spent the first year in China living in a small village, where virtually nobody spoke English. It's all about being in the right environment.

If this isn't possible, I would recommend books published by Beijing University. I enjoyed about 60% of the books that they published.

[ipsi()]

I'd recommend taking a look at the Pimsleur 'preview' CD first. They have it down at my library for Mandarin, so if you like what you see on there, you can probably be happy with plunking down the exorbitant amount of cash they're asking for it.

Also, take a look at Chinese Pod.com. You can grab a trial period to see if you like it. As they're podcasts, they're entirely audio-based, which should be good for developing listening skills. Might want to expand your vocabulary a little first so you can focus more on the listening and understanding than on trying to catch funny syllables that don't have much meaning to you (I know I find it easier to understand when I know all (or most) of the words being used. Otherwise I tune out the 'gibberish').

PlecoDict is an awesome resource, but it's not so great for Audio. Even with version 2.0, it's mostly good for drills and identifying the pinyin of words rather than actual listening comprehension.

For grammar, I've heard that the weighty tome Chinese: A Comprehensive Grammar isn't a bad choice, but I don't have it myself, and it's very much a reference book.

You should also think about picking up a series of Textbooks, like "New Practical Chinese Reader", or "Integrated Chinese" in order to get vocabulary that's not chosen entirely at random, and some explanation of grammar, if you haven't already.

So yeah, I hope that helps you some.

[renzhe]

Pimsleur is well done, but I find it boring and it will not take you very far, especially considering the price tag. It is really a resource for complete beginners.

You should probably look into a good textbook, to give you the guidance you want and the necessary grammar. New Practical Chinese Reader and Integrated Chinese are popular choices and can be ordered online, and have CDs and DVDs with audio and many exercises if you're into that stuff.

You can use a good Spaced Repetition flashcard program like Mnemosyne or Anki to keep track of your vocabulary and to revise it daily. If you feel like you could progress more, you can download complete vocabulary sets for HSK tests from the Mnemosyne download page and learn that -- they are all important words and characters that you'd learn sooner or later.

On top of that, look for some audio input. I really like and recommend ChinesePod.com, their lessons are interesting, funny and easy to listen to. You can add the new vocabulary to your flashcard program and keep track of that too. You don't HAVE to pay anything to listen to the podcasts, so you can test-drive it. You only pay if you want the transcripts and extra site functionality.

Once you get a bit better, you can also look into downloading TV shows and soap operas in Chinese and watching that. It's better than movies because it goes on forever, and you can watch an episode every day and get 30-40 minutes of Chinese exposure every day, and the video will help you understand the context and guess what's going on when you can't completely follow the dialogue (which will be most of the time in the beginning).

That and get a Chinese friend from your region to meet for a coffee once a week. You can find an exchange student and practice both English and Chinese. This will give you input from a real person, fix your mistakes, and you'll have somebody to ask when you don't understand something.

With me, it's been NPCR, Mnemosyne with the HSK database, ChinesePod, TV series and a Chinese friend for conversation. Doing this combination has really helped my level improve rapidly.

[Stefani]

With that, would the Pimsleur course be the best route for me? I am moderately sure that I'm going to purchase the first comprehensive course.

I love Pimsleur, but I borrowed Mandarin I and II from the library, then bought Mandarin III because it was not available from the library. I wanted to review it several times without having to return them to the library every 4 weeks. So I would suggest that you check your local library first. For me it works great because I don't have a lot of sit-down time but I drive quite a bit, so I listen to Pimsleur in the car.

I also think that if you were in a University course you are probably past Mandarin I.

After finishing Mandarin III, my plan is to go through the NPCR (New Practical Chinese Reader) series. I also listen to chinesepod.com when I get a chance.

Good luck!

[fireball9261]

I think you should try to see if you could have a conversation with you Chinese restaurant waitors or waitress in Mandarin. This way, you could gradually build up your ability for listening and speaking. You can also order your favorite Chinese food in perfect Mandarin.

The other ways for self study Chinese that would be cheaper, but quite powerful, is to watch your local Chinese TV programs or news in Mandarin. That will definitely help you in your listening. In addition, you could also rent or borrow Chinese DVD's to watch.

You need to get yourself to get familiar with the flow of the Chinese language before more advanced grammar would help. If you want, do the above as well as reviewing your grammers while doing it. I learned my English this way, and it was very effective.

[ezpar]

Thank you for the responses! I will certainly look into all of the resources and take up your suggestions.

Unfortunately, living in China isn't much of an option at the moment. Hopefully when I return to graduate school I'll be able to spend a summer there, so I think that will help.

There's a coffee shop next to where I work that is owned/operated by a couple that speaks Mandarin -- I've been working up the courage to order something in Mandarin and I should be able to do it soon!

Thanks again!

[ezpar]

I also think that if you were in a University course you are probably past Mandarin I.

Does that mean I should start with second volume of NPCR? I am probably leaning towards that as a main study tool and not Pimsleur, just because of P's price and noted shortcomings.

I'm just worried that I may miss important grammar points or vocab if I skip the first volume. Unfortunately, I searched pretty much every library in the area and was unable to locate it (same with Pimsleur). Do you guys think it would be okay to go straight to the 2nd volume?

[tigao]

Since you are taking a college class, see if the school has any Chinese/Asian clubs. You might make some friends, especially a group of Chinese friends, who will speak Chinese around you while just doing the normal things you'd do when hanging out.

[ipsi()]

Yes. You should be well past Book 1, but in the event you're not, what prevents you from asking here? To be honest, there's not much grammer in the first book, it's mostly focused around the very basics like reading, writing and speaking. Not so heavy on the grammer. The worst offender is the partical 了, but even if you own the book it won't help much. You'd wind up on here either way .

Schaum's Outlines of Chinese Grammer should help as well. It's not terribly comprehensive but it's reasonably cheap and provides another view if you're stuck.

[Stefani]

Does that mean I should start with second volume of NPCR?

Take a look at the table of contents here:

http://www.studychineseculture.com/book.asp?id=461

You can also try book 2 first, and then if it is too difficult you can move down to book 1. I think you can do book 1 quickly. I don't have any of the books yet, but I have the DVD for book 1, and while mostly I can understand the topic of the conversations, I don't quite get all the details.

Good luck!

[renzhe]

Does that mean I should start with second volume of NPCR? I am probably leaning towards that as a main study tool and not Pimsleur, just because of P's price and noted shortcomings.

You can get the first volume (used) for $3.50 on amazon. No reason not to get it and if you're too advanced, go through it quickly to make sure you're not missing anything important.