A question regarding the Pimsleur courses

[Colossus]

If anyone has used the Pimsleur courses on Mandarin, I could use your input.

I think my brain works slower than most, but when they give me that pause, it is almost always too short. I have thought that this is intensional, and the idea is to force you to not translate mentally, but simply recall (the eventual goal of all language learning I assume).

However, I have found that the words rarely stick if I do that, but if I puzzle through the sentences sometimes, it helps me much more. It is fairly well established in educational psychology that things learned on one's own volition is retained much better than if something is just told to you (sort of like if you are given directions to a friends house as you are driving you usually forget it a week later--if you have to look up the friends house on the internet or something, you almost always retain it well).

However, I am worried about the language process and if it will hurt me in the long run to not force myself to adhere to the time limits set by the tapes.

Does anyone know about this and either know the system's stance on this, or have some language learning input of your own?

[owshawng]

Most people have to listen to each Pimsleur Mandarin lesson a few times before they can move on to the next one. Try using the pause button after each statement you are supposed to respond to. After you go through the lesson 2 or 3 times try to respond and use the pause button less and less.

With Pimsleur the first lessons I had to listen to probably 4 or 5 tmes, by the time I reached the lessons in the 70's and 80's, I only needed 1 or 2 times to get through it. The lessons were probably the same difficulty level as the beginning ones, just that my brain had gotten used to the Pimsleur method and become a lot better at processing Chinese.

Good luck. Make sure you practice every day, even if it's only for 10 or 15 minutes and you'll get better. Also for a change of pace check out Chinesepod.com or Chineselearnonline.com.

[renzhe]

Pimsleur system is based on spaced repetition, so they repeat words and phrases in particular intervals, specifically calculated to refresh your memory at the right time.

If you don't progress one lesson a day, you completely lose this aspect, which is actually what the Pimsleur method is all about.

I also found the intervals to be too short, FWIW. I found myself racing against the time to remember. Maybe it's the purely aural approach, and maybe I'm more of a visual learner I always had to think of the pinyin before responding.

[Colossus]

Most people have to listen to each Pimsleur Mandarin lesson a few times before they can move on to the next one. Try using the pause button after each statement you are supposed to respond to. After you go through the lesson 2 or 3 times try to respond and use the pause button less and less.

With Pimsleur the first lessons I had to listen to probably 4 or 5 tmes, by the time I reached the lessons in the 70's and 80's, I only needed 1 or 2 times to get through it. The lessons were probably the same difficulty level as the beginning ones, just that my brain had gotten used to the Pimsleur method and become a lot better at processing Chinese.

Good luck. Make sure you practice every day, even if it's only for 10 or 15 minutes and you'll get better. Also for a change of pace check out Chinesepod.com or Chineselearnonline.com.

This doesn't seem to fit with what the course suggests. The course tells the listener to not worry if he doesn't get everything right. As long as they get 80%, the course suggests moving on.

I already use Chinesepod.com for supplementary work, as the total vocabulary is a little low in the Pimsleur courses.

[Colossus]

Pimsleur system is based on spaced repetition, so they repeat words and phrases in particular intervals, specifically calculated to refresh your memory at the right time.

If you don't progress one lesson a day, you completely lose this aspect, which is actually what the Pimsleur method is all about.

Are you saying that it is necessary to use only the pause provided?

Could I get a consistent answer here? (not saying you're inconsistent, but the two people who have posted have given almost perfectly contradictory responses, and neither have very much explanation in their postings)

[Mandolin Bee]

The point of Pimsleur is to make you comfortable with common sentence patterns.

You should be able to copy the speaker in the time allotted. If you're spending time decoding the sentence's technicalities in your head to be 'absolutely sure' of what you're saying, you're missing the point of the program.

Pimsleur's is a balance approach between what Rosetta Stone does (no technical explanations at all) and a textbook (heavy technical explanation). It gives you just enough to realize what you're saying and how to construct similar patterns repeatedly.

Note: I have not used Pimsleur's for Chinese, but for Japanese. I never had trouble repeating in the time allotted except for maybe the first time I heard a phrase after a while. For extra "speed practice" I would also repeat the answer when the native speaker says it, trying to match them as closely as possible (and I can hear then where I make mistakes).

That's my 2 cents worth. ^_^

[renzhe]

I'm not an expert on Pimsleur, but I don't think pressing pause will interfere (much) with your learning, as this is short-term memory. I think that trying to answer quickly and intuitively will help you, though. As long as you're not taking 5 minutes per answer, it probably isn't a big deal.

I think that their intervals are spread over several days. So, for example, you get the word from lesson 3 repeated in lesson 6, because at that time, you'd just start forgetting it. If you take 3 days per lesson, you will only get that word after 9 days, as opposed to 3.

So you should try to keep advancing regularly, a new lesson each day. If you have to repeat a lesson, I think it would be preferable to repeat it the same day, and then move on the next day.

Once again, I'm not an expert on Pimsleur, but this is how I understand their system to work. Pimsleur is famous for integrating this spaced repetition method into lessons and using exactly the right intervals so you use minimal effort and get maximal results. If you mess up these intervals, you're missing out on the biggest advantage Pimsleur claims to have over other methods.

[fredrik_w]

A year ago, I listened to the 90 lessons and I used the pause button alot. Often, I needed a few additional seconds to deliver the answer. I dont think you should be worried about this issue. After about 50 lessons, I understood that the Pimsleur "all-audio" approach didnt completly suited me. Then I started to review the new words in pinyin before and after each lesson and that made a big difference. I got better pronunciation and remembered better. I would recommend anyone to do this when you start with Pimsleur Mandarin. Start learn pinyin from the beginning. Google for transcripts.

After Pimsleur, I started with the FSI material and I would say almost everything from Pimsleur is repeated (often is a slightly different form which is good). But FSI goes deeper and add more vocab.

An other proposal: before you continue with Pimsleur, go to http://fsi-language-courses.com/Chinese.aspx and listen to Resource module Pronunciation and Romanization. You will benefit from this for the complete Pimsleur course.

Good luck.

[mirgcire]

My experience is similar to fredrik_w.

I used the pause button a lot. But, I always forced myself to remember before I move on. I probably repeated each lesson 5 times, because it took me a year to get through the whole series.

But it was completely worth it. When I speak chinese in china people rarely ask me to repeat. Unfortunately my listening comprehension is not nearly as good. Also, I find that I can remember the tones by replaying the pimsleur in my head.

It doesn't bother me in the least that if I did not use the material they way the experts say I should. It worked for me, and I know it works for others. I feel like it helped me lay a rock solid foundation to build my chinese on.

Also I agree that chinesepod and FSI to be very helpful for continuing studies.

[anticks]

If you think Pimsleur is short FSI is shorter, and faster.

My lesson is to just bowl threw all of them 1 lesson per day FSI - 2 lessons per day (since they are 20 mins each usually) and see how i am at hte end, and maybe listen to random lessons in the car after that.

I have Rosetta Stone too but haven't looked at it THAT much. Is it good for vocab? Anyone have details on how good it is? How many words it teaches?