Tone poems & Ma Chihyuan's Tian Jing Sha

[timmo]

Hello to all on the forum. May I introduce myself. My name is Tim, I live and work in Zhuhai, Guangdong as an English Teacher.

I have long enjoyed reading an exploring Chinese poetry and on finding this board thought it might be anexcellant chance to talk to some people who can help me improve my understanding of Chinese poetry.

May I ask then how I may begin to submit some questions?

I would love to begin to explore Ma Chihyuan's Tian Jing Sha as it is one of my favourite tone poems. I occasionally use it in my classes as an English lesson.

With regards, Tim

[wix]

timmo, welcome to the forum. I have changed the topic of your post. It will make it easier for you to get a relevant answer. If you have a question just choose an appropriate forum (you have done that) and then ask your question. Try to make the topic of your post informative. If you have a specific question about Ma Chihyuan's Tian Jing Sha or tone poems just post it in this topic.

If you just want to introduce yourself then go the introduce yourself topic in the chat and language exchange forum.

[skylee]

One poem only?

The poet's name is Ma Zhiyuan in Hanyu Pinyin. It is a beautiful poem. I've found this, which gives you both a calligraphy and an English translation, which are not bad IMHO.

[Cinixsi]

Hello Tim, my name is Alexandra. I'm new here, I live and study in Poland, I like English language and once I came across and add that they need ENglish Teachers in China, I was wondering how does it feel to be there, and .. just how it is.

Greetings, Alexandra

[timmo]

Hello again.Thank you both for your warm welcome.

A quick question though please skylee, I have tried to copy and paste the lines of Wen Tianxiang straight into the message body wothout success.

I have Chinese fonts on my computer so I am assuming I need to switch a radio button in my setup options to allow pasting of Chinese characters, Am I correct? Thanks.

To the Tune of Sky-Clear Sand: Autumn Thoughts

by Ma Chih-yuan (1260-1324)

Withered vine,

old tree,

crows.

A small bridge,

running water,

houses.

Ancient road,

west wind,

lean horse,

sun sinking

in the west—

and a man,

crushed,

at the sky's edge.

This is a translation by Arthur Sze I have just found. What do you think of the last line. I have to say that another translation "... and the heartbroken man has reached the end of the sky." rings a better sound for me when rendered into English.

How do you enjoy this line Alexandra?

Looking forward to your thoughts.

[shibo77]

http://www.chinapage.org/wentian2n.html

These lines of Wen Tianxiang? They cannot be copied and pasted because they are images on that link.

- Shibo

[timmo]

Thanks Shibo77. I should have guessed.

[timmo]

Whilst discussing this poem with one of my students today she pointed out that probably the most difficult part of this poem to translate accurately and still retain the mood of desolation and foreboding is the last line.

She told me that although most English translations will render the first idea as the 'heartbroken man" or similar, the Chinese character alludes to the intestines and that Ma Zhiyuan was referring to a well known story of a monkey who chased a boat to retrieve its young and died on jumping to the boat. The feeling of dispair and grief here is centred on on the intestines, which does not have an equivalent connatation for us in English.

Could someone expand on this idea for me?

[ananda]

Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 1:30 pm Post subject:

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Whilst discussing this poem with one of my students today she pointed out that probably the most difficult part of this poem to translate accurately and still retain the mood of desolation and foreboding is the last line.

She told me that although most English translations will render the first idea as the 'heartbroken man" or similar, the Chinese character alludes to the intestines and that Ma Zhiyuan was referring to a well known story of a monkey who chased a boat to retrieve its young and died on jumping to the boat. The feeling of dispair and grief here is centred on on the intestines, which does not have an equivalent connatation for us in English.

Could someone expand on this idea for me?

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well, I think many Chinese don't know that monkey story.

but it's a suitable poem to describe a man faraway from his homeland

and terribly miss his lover and his homeland, although there's no

such direct description. In many china's poems, when they want to

express sorrow feelings, they often provide a most beautiful scene to

enhance the sorrow, and vice versa. for example:

----translated by myself

昔我往矣，when I left home (to war field) before, {bad thing}

杨柳依依，the sallow were joggling (in the spring wind), {beautiful scene}

今我来思，now I (survived to) come back (home), {happy thing}

雨雪霏霏。rain and snow are pouring down. {bad scene, heavily beat that

happiness on above sentence, what happened? lover or family member

was dead?......}