Learning Chinese without audio?

[Mrdini]

Hi folks,

I have been interested in learning Chinese on 'n off over the past few months, and have given it a stab occasionally. However, one obstacle that keeps tripping me up is that the majority of language-based courses assume you can hear - I can't! This is because I am profoundly deaf I've tried the Character based materials that the MIT's OCW Chinese 101 provides, and whilst I've made some progress, it's still hard going! (Who said learning a language was easy? ), and I'm not sure that the MIT OCW course is all that good? I haven't exactly heard of many other people using it so...

Whilst I understand that it is far easier to learn a language by both speaking & listening as well as reading & writing, I'm not quite sure whether it is possible(?) for me to learn mandarin - I can't really hear the different tones (well, I can, but it's very VERY difficult for me to detect the differences). As a result, I was wondering what you folks would suggest, and what resources are out there for someone who would prefer to learn just written Chinese. Is it even practical/possible? Unfortunately, MOST language courses/materials are heavily biased towards people who can hear, and thus want to speak/hear mandarin, as opposed to reading & writing simplified Chinese.

For what it's worth, my girlfriend is Mandarin, but she keeps claiming she's not a teacher & can't help teach me Chinese on her own! So it's up to me to find materials or a course that would work for me first!

Any thoughts/advice?

TIA!

[character]

So, you're basically talking about learning to read Chinese.

Take a look at the Integrated Chinese and New Practical Chinese Reader series of textbooks. Obviously there will be a lot of material in each you won't use, but both are very character heavy. Your gf can check your answers to exercises, at least.

I think you'll want to learn the pinyin for each character, even if you don't bother to learn the tones. The pinyin will be useful for typing chinese and probably many other things.

[Jenny311]

Your case is really special.

But it also makes me recalling many of my Chinese fellow in China who's English learning are called "dummy English" or "slient English". Because they can be quiet good at reading and writing, but quiet poor at speaking and listening. - So, you are not alone! it's possible to learn a language like this!

If you don't mind to let us know what's your purpose and goal of learning Mandarin, maybe we can come out with some more suggestions tailored to your needs.

[Mrdini]

So, you're basically talking about learning to read Chinese.

Reading & writing, yes. But I didn't want to put this thread in that forum, as I don't have anything against speaking & listening, if they can help somehow i.e. memorisation (although I highly doubt this, & chances are that I'll never be able to speak Chinese competently!).

Take a look at the Integrated Chinese and New Practical Chinese Reader series of textbooks. Obviously there will be a lot of material in each you won't use, but both are very character heavy.

IC sounds alright - but what reviews I could find of it didn't sound too good & it seems like the kind of textbook that's for use within a university course.

New Practical Chinese Reader sounds fine, but might be a bit difficult to track down in the UK... I dunno. Will wait for more input before deciding.

The pinyin will be useful for typing chinese and probably many other things.

Definitely, as I work with computers a lot, & would like to be able to type Chinese. I briefly considered the "Remembering Simplified Hanzi", recommended in a thread in the other forum, but I notice that wouldn't let me learn pinyin which is a bit of a problem when it comes to typing chinese.

If you don't mind to let us know what's your purpose and goal of learning Mandarin, maybe we can come out with some more suggestions tailored to your needs.

Hmm. Curiosity? G/f is Mandarin? Mandarin is widely spoken? There's LOTS of Chinese materials that I'm curious about (like Hong Lou Meng - as if I'll EVER be able to read that )? The challenge?

Really, there's no specific 'main' reason - just would like to give it a try, if I can!

[muyongshi]

Quick question: are you actually tone deaf or are you hard of hearing or are you just crapping at hearing fluctuations even in the english language??

I had a friend that was tone deaf (and she was tone deaf, couldn't sing worth a plug nickel) but she could "see" the tones on individual words as they were spoken to here and as such reproduce them. She couldn't hear it but somehow see the people speak the words she could understand how to reproduce it. So, maybe you could try to get your girlfriend to just stare at you and say the words for you so you can see them. Might help might not. Also if it does and your girlfriend hates doing it you could try this new resource that was posted a couple days ago, as it is video it may help you "see" the words.

In regards to previous stated friends position on learning, she just could never reproduce the tones on sentence level structures but hey she got by fine and was for the most part understood. I also think that when she resumes her studying after x years some of the tones will carry over and she will be able to reproduce the whole thing but it will just take her longer. My hope is that it will be the same for you. I think you can learn it but it may just take longer and a lot more practice in the speaking area.

For other specific materials I only have my normal recommendation of starting with Chinese Made Easier

[Meng Lelan]

Mrdini-

I am profoundly deaf from birth and went to a school for the deaf. I learned Chinese using the same materials as everyone else. Even though you say you are profoundly deaf (I assume you have hearing loss of 100 dB and over), you can and should attempt to learn to speak and listen in Chinese but you do need to enlist the assistance of your Chinese speaking girlfriend. You do need to learn pinyin and tone marks and understand where the tongue and teeth are supposed to be for each and every sound in the Chinese language.

I cannot hear tones either so I essentially applied speechreading skills to Chinese conversation situations. If they taught you speechreading in the school for the deaf you attended, then you have learned to depend on context and various strategies that more or less compensate for the inability to hear tones. If you have any further questions you can private message me.

Lelan

[imron]

If you have any further questions you can private message me.

Or you could ask them here, so that future readers can also benefit from your advice

[Meng Lelan]

Or you could ask them here, so that future readers can also benefit from your advice

If I get any more questions from deaf learners of Chinese, I may demand a new forum just for that purpose - deaf learners of Chinese. I think I will call it 聋人角.

[roddy]

Hey, if you can get several people together and do your best to keep it active you can have it. And you can call it what you want

[anonymoose]

I started learning Chinese by self-study from a book while I was still in the UK. As I had noone to practice with, I initially just learnt to read and write without being able to speak a word, and not even knowing how many of the characters I wrote were pronounced. So it is definitely possible.

The book I used (and recommend unreservedly) is Basic Chinese: A Grammar and Workbook by Yip Po-Ching and Don Rimmington (ISBN: 978-0415160377). The vocabulary is built up progressively in the book, so even though the focus is on grammar, you can also learn a lot of words by working through the book.

The only weakness is that how characters (stroke order, etc.) are written is not covered in the book. However, there are many online resources where you can search for animated characters, so this is not really a serious problem.

Anyway, I wish you luck with it.

[Meng Lelan]

Hey, if you can get several people together and do your best to keep it active you can have it. And you can call it what you want

Roddy,

Really!? Cool! If my memory is correct, a deaf guy dropped by this forum a year or so ago. Let me see if my fellow deaf learners of Chinese will answer my bilingual call for a new forum. After all, we have special unique needs of our own. Stay tuned.

Lelan

[Jenny311]

"The only weakness is that how characters (stroke order, etc.) are written is not covered in the book"

--The following link can help with that:

http://www.usc.edu/dept/ealc/chinese/character/alpha/index.htm

[character]

IC sounds alright - but what reviews I could find of it didn't sound too good & it seems like the kind of textbook that's for use within a university course.

I don't think that review is for the current, 2nd edition. http://www.cheng-tsui.com/store/products/integrated_chinese

It is used at universities and at least two local (Taiwanese and Mainland) weekend Chinese schools -- I'm not sure why you'd consider it being widely used a bad thing. The main problem I would have with it for self-study is there isn't an answer key, but you can just ask your gf if you're not sure of something. Otherwise, between the textbook, workbook, and character workbook there is IMO more than enough material and exercises to get a good grounding in the material and the repetition required to learn Chinese.

That's not to say it's perfect. Sinosplice has better info on pronouncing Mandarin http://www.sinosplice.com/lang/ and I think the book Chinese the Easy Way has a bit better grammar explanations in some cases, but it's pinyin-only except for one chapter.

New Practical Chinese Reader sounds fine, but might be a bit difficult to track down in the UK... I dunno. Will wait for more input before deciding.

These two stores have it and will ship internationally if you can't find it locally.

http://chinesemall.com/info.html

http://www.cheng-tsui.com/customer_service_support/customer_service_and_ordering_information/shipping

I briefly considered the "Remembering Simplified Hanzi", recommended in a thread in the other forum[....]

When I was in a pinyin-based course, I found simply practicing writing the characters and using computer or paper flashcards provided sufficient retention. If you end up using IC, you may find that the copious amount of exercises allows you to remember them.

[Rhubarb]

See here, it's definitely possible to learn this way and start reading novels.