question on dating a chinese girl.

[fire656]

I am a white, Caucasian boy. Lived in the US all my life. Clearly i'm accustom to American traditions and culture but i do have many Asian friends. I find asian girls attractive and i met this girl who is Chinese. Her parents came to America 18 years ago and gave birth to her here. Her older sisters were both born in China. We have talked lots and found out more things about eachother and although i know Asian people every day i'm fascinated by things she tels me about the chinese culture and she is interested in things I tell her about mine, dispite her living here her whole life. She has rather shut out from others due to her parents very limited English and protectiveness. We recently started dating. The only time she really gets to go out is if its with her best American girl friend or if its with me.

Now that there is some background...

We are happily dating and enjoy eachother's company all the time. I really don't see any flaws in the relationship between us. The thing that concerns me is her family, or to be more exact, the parents. To say the least she doesnt really get along with her mother. Also both her sisters had pre-arranged marriages and her younger brother is also to have one. From talking to one of her sisters (not yet married) and from talking to my girlfriend, they both say she is the favorite in her fathers eyes. When i say this i mean... her brother is most favored as he is a boy, but 2nd would come my girlfriend. Now... I hope I dont sound ignorant or anything as i'm still understanding but i know the male is "love more?" in the family, at least in this one. As the other siblings have had pre-arranged marriages, and my girlfriend has somewhat mentioned it for herself but she told me that she thinks, and hopes, that her dad truely knows she has no desire what-so-ever to marry a total stranger, as her and the 'pre-arranged guy' have never met. I'm a little troubled by all the talk of this. As i would hate to have the father or parents break us up as I have heard so much of before. Would he do so because i'm not Chinese? Also i cant really talk to the parents much because they speak limited English.

I'm not really sure what to do. If it was between my girlfriend and I, i'm sure it would work. But I'm trying to find some reasonable solution or at least hope that it could work out.

[muyongshi]

Well you are going to get a lot of "screw the parents" type answers and a lot of "win the parents" type answers and even more a combination of both is my guess. But in response to the one real question you asked: yes it is very possible if the parents believe in arranged marriage (obviously they do) for them to try and break you up whether or not you are chinese (hence the nature of arranged marriages). But if all these marriage were to other Chinese you not being Chinese shoots the chance up MASSIVELY. Now if you were Chinese the situation might be a little different.

My only advice is try to win the parents over. Get your girlfriend to teach you a little Chinese and spend time with them. This is going to be the best way to get their approval and unless you guys are planning on getting hitched right away or if her arranged marriage is coming up quick, you then would have a lot of time to work on this. And it may take a while so the earlier the better (just make sure the arranged guy doesn't turn out to be from the triads or something and get pissed for you stealing his girl ). But honestly in the end it's going to be up to you but do know that she will most likely be heavily inclined to listen to her parents on the subject so get to work getting to know the parents and start impressing them with your stellar personality and amazing ability to pickup on "their" culture.

And as you spend time with them get your girlfriend to lay down "cultural" boundaries for you so you know what will and will not offend the prospective in laws. And in preparation for response some people will give me along the lines of "screw culture and the parents" this is just temporary. If you want it to go well you need to play a time game, a dance if you will with the parents and I promise it will make the many (hopefully) years to come a lot smoother! This may not be entirely necessarily but it just lubes up the rusty bolts as you will eventually (once again hopefully) help the parents to open up their mindset a bit too. While being political and all that is not always the funnest approach I find diplomacy in situations like this to still be the best policy. Talk more to your girlfriend as well as to what the family environment is like (but don't ask her all the time what you can do because she will probably be at a loss has to how to approach the situation after a certain degree).

Wow the third cup of coffee is starting to kick in and since I'm bored on Christmas I will have to force myself to stop writing.

But one last little nugget: the parents can be a huge key to a more smooth relationship with you and your girlfriend especially from a traditional asian cultural perspective. It's not the entirety so don't neglect your relationship with your girlfriend in order to win the parents but in your case (as it seems they are very VERY traditional) it can be a major plus to win them over to your side. Good luck!

[imron]

Another good piece of advice, is to win over her siblings. If you're friends with them, then they will help win over the parents.

[shibole]

I'm not an expert on the subject but I think these guys are right.

[Lu]

What muyongshi said. From what I know and read of your story, the parents are going to be a serious problem. Saying 'screw them' is not going to work, as they are still her parents, and she will not easily go completely against their wishes. You need to win them over. Good luck!

[Senzhi]

And winning over the parents might not be so obvious as it sounds. I had the same situation: parents broke up our relationship, and persistently refused to ever see or speak to me, which, thus, never happened.

Like in any culture, deeply rooted traditions are hard to break. No matter what, it takes an awful lot of time (read: generations).

That is not to say you shouldn't give it a careful try, of course.

[muyongshi]

Wow! What happened to all the "screw the parents" people. Oh I know it's Christmas so they have to be nice!

Anyway, the only thing I would add now is that Imron is absolutely right.

[fire656]

Thank you so much for you advice! it does help.

You are all right about how much they are still into tradition. Learn chinese, i have been trying. Almost every day i try to learn a little. I'm not the best at languages but somehow chinese (supposed to be very hard?) is comming slightly easier than learning french in school is. But still i'm at basics, also I wouldnt be able to learn enough to actually talk to the parents I dont think would would greatly hinder my relationship with them.

Also, while they seem traditional, from what i hear from the siblings and from my girlfriend her father likes her best (next to the boy in the family) and therfore they say he might not force her to marry. ( + for me? heheh) Also i like the point about knowing the siblings better. As they are all more accustom to american things than the parents and all speak english. I talk to them often, tho not as much as my own girlfriend of course and they even try to help further our relationship (girlfriend and myself) so perhaps you are right that they could do the same with the parents.

Oh, and yea in responce to what you said muyongshi, we would have a while before anyone gets married so its alright in that aspect. I have time. heh. And i have talked to her about her family enviorment, it seems to be quite a sensitive subject. Also she is quite often at her friends house (who are American), they drive her to school and so much more. Like a 2nd family.

[BrandeX]

I'll chime in for the screw your parents side, then. She has lied in the USA for her whole life, so the girl is American, not Chinese. Without knowing the person in particular, this could mean her personality to be anything. A typical American girl can run the range from a daddy's girl type, or obeying everything her parents say, to the "F you Mom and dad" type who is underage pregnant,. tatooed and pierced and on drugs at 14. I don't get the impression she is this sort, but my point is, she only has had to live with her parents ideas that they tell her about, which can be somewhat influential, however, her life is 100% American since she was a baby, and it's possible she thinks and feels no different than any white, mexican, black, etc. girl who lives in the USA.

Have you come out and asked her if she cares what her parents think? Some teenagers do, many don't (girls included).

[imron]

Anyway, the only thing I would add now is that Imron is absolutely right.

Haha, this is advice my Spanish brother-in-law told me when we first met (at the time he had just become engaged to my sister, and had not yet met my parents).

I talk to them often

Talking with them is a good start, but you should aim to be good friends with them. If this is the case, they will defend you if/when the parents try to dissuade your girlfriend from being with you. It should also be much easier to win over the siblings as you will have a lot more in common, both in terms of language and culture than you do with the parents.

Some teenagers do, many don't (girls included).

To this I would just add that many teenagers might not, but people don't remain teenagers forever. If you are contemplating any sort of long-term relationship with your girlfriend, then getting on well with the parents will certainly make your life easier - especially if as you say she is the favourite daughter.

[Han-tiger]

My advice is as follows:

A. Try hard to learn Everyday Spoken Chinese. Speaking their native language will make you close to her parents. In case of a conversation with them, ask your girlfriend to do some interpretation work for you. Try to defeat the communication barrier.

B. Try to learn everything about her parents from your girlfriend and her siblings. If this is a military operation, then information precedes anything else. This could be very helpful for you to make them pleased and comfortable.

C. Please be aware that this is not a “game” between you and her parents. It is a “game” between you, your girlfriend, her siblings and her parents. You and her siblings are of similar age, similar upbringing, and similar experience, sharing the same language, the same value, and the same immersion of American culture. So it is much easier to get along well with her siblings. Try to make good friends with them.

Arranged marriage, used to prevail in ancient China, has been discarded by modern Chinese. It is both unacceptable and unimaginable to marry a total stranger. I suggest you to raise this topic to her siblings when possible, asking about their thought and idea about arranged marriage. Do they love their spouse as appointed by parents? And do they enjoy the life arranged by parents? Are they living easily and happily in their spiritual world? If you come to figure out that they are the “victim” of arranged marriage, this fact will function favorably in your case. Tell them it is worth your whole life to love your girlfriend, and you couldn’t live any longer without her. Try to gain their sympathy and supports, and to help them form and strengthen the idea of protecting their younger sister, your girlfriend so as to prevent being another “victim” of arranged marriage. It would be great that they are acting as your spokesman in their family talk while you are “invisible”. And, their complaint (if any) about their unpleasant experience of arranged marriage may more or less help parents eventually give up this silly idea.

D. Try to learn the art on how to please Chinese parents. I am well experienced in this regard.

a. As growing old, heath becomes top concerns to parents. Always inquire about her parents’ health, and try to work out some solution that could help improve their condition. For example, if her dad is suffering from hypertension, then you can purchase the right nutrition food and give it to her dad as a present when visiting her family. This is highly recommended o you! For it does work. Action is more eloquent than words.

b. Generally speaking, Chinese parents like those best who are modest, good-mannered, persuasible and obedient (they hate INDEPENDENCE). So while being with her parents, try to always behave cap in hevnd, even if you feel you are offended, something like ignored by her parents.

c. Make every effort to bring joys and even surprises to her family. Chinese parents do value the relationship with their kids. As you say in your post that your girlfriend doesn’t really get along with her mother, I thus suggest you to have a nice talk with your girlfriend and persuade her to be kind to her mom. It is one of Chinese traditional virtues that kids respect their parents and follow parents’ advice. Tell your girlfriend that sometime it is wise to make some compromise and avoid arguing or quarreling with her mom. When her parents come to find that it is you that help their daughter improve the relationship with them, you will of course win lots of favor from them.

One of the toughest things in this world is to change other’s mind. But, nothing is impossible. God will help those who help themselves. Please bear in mind that moderation, patience, tolerance and perseverance will help you pave the way to success. I have read some successful stories similar to this kind in mainland China.

Look forward to your good news!

[heifeng]

Just doing the simple math, this girl sounds like she is still high school. This is a not really a 'dating' age for ~BC 'children' according to their parents. They will probably still not necessarily be supportive until she is about to graduate from college, since that will be 'the prime opportunity' to find a man, and then she'll have the real pressure to date.

So even if you follow the above mentioned hints, which actually seem quite kind and helpful, then just also be aware that there is fine line between the ' hell no, you can't date' and 'why don't you have a boyfriend yet, is something wrong with you' age for even ABC girls, (of course depending on the parents alot and their attitudes towards this). .......So even if the parents aren't arranging her marriage or playing matchmaker or such, despite your best efforts, the switch may just be in 'off' placement for the time being, but it wouldn't hurt to get started on some preparatory work and kiss up to the parents and other family members now, by the time the parents maybe acknowledge you, you'll have an idea if it's even worth all the trouble or not

[Senzhi]

Does anybody have any idea about the Chinese legal viewpoint regarding pre-arranged marriage?

Not that it'll help much, as law and implementation of law are two completely different things.

[liuzhou]

All marriages are "pre-arranged". I think you mean "arranged".

And can we please re-word the 'screw the parents' part. I don't think that is quite what the questioner has in mind!

[muyongshi]

sorry, I'm not the best at political correctness just capturing the essence of my own meaning

I know that is not his intent but one thing that really does change this whole thing is age. I never noticed her/his age and now my advice is get to know the parents but hopefully you aren't planning on settling down in the next year so you have many years and who knows...you may wind up in a totally different place than expected. I will admire you if you say "she is the one" and I have no problem with that but I said that at your age too and so all i'm saying is keep an open mind in that sense. You have many years ahead and many years before her parents would even consider marrying her off.

[imron]

Does anybody have any idea about the Chinese legal viewpoint regarding pre-arranged marriage?

According to Chinese law, arranged/forced marriages are illegal. However as you noted, in practice, what the law says and what is reality aren't always the same thing.

[muyongshi]

I would also like to point out that not all arranged marriages are "forced". Sometimes the parties are willing to accept their parents proposal. And I only have a problem with arranged marriages when they are forced.

[MartinF]

Well, I will also weigh in on the negative side.

First of all, you are both too young to be worried about or considering marriage. I would say start thinking about it, maybe at the earliest by 23, and then actually get married by 25. If things progress that far. So much can happen in the early formative, adult years. Most people I think would suggest taking your time and I would suggest playing the field.

Regarding character attributes, I really wouldn't be interested in marrying anybody is willing to let their parents dictate who and what type of person they marry. I've always liked more independent, strong-willed, kind of women. But then again, that's my preference. It wouldn't hurt for her parents to like you, but getting approval and winning them over? Nah. Too much control.

If she needs their approval, then who is going to be calling the shots after you get married? Not you or her. The in-laws.

[Senzhi]

Regarding character attributes, I really wouldn't be interested in marrying anybody is willing to let their parents dictate who and what type of person they marry. I've always liked more independent, strong-willed, kind of women. But then again, that's my preference. It wouldn't hurt for her parents to like you, but getting approval and winning them over? Nah. Too much control.

If she needs their approval, then who is going to be calling the shots after you get married? Not you or her. The in-laws.

I can agree here ... now ... I wouldn't have agreed 20 years ago. And probably I might again not agree anymore this evening.

I'm afraid 'love' isn't all that 'mathematical logic' but more 'chemical weirdness'