Books? Novels? or Magazines? etc

[Guest yangbin]

Hi all,

I have a question, according to you, which is the best to improve your chinese, Novels? Magazines? or books? or Newspapers?

There are not writting in the same way....and so I was thinking that Novel might be better to get daily words, or good expressions etc.... But read books about a certain subject can be good, but maybe a bit too 'written'!

So, please tell me what you think about the best format to make some progress !

Thx !

[muyongshi]

Well what is your goal??

If you want to just improve overall I would say a combination of everything.

Novels help in general with words and sayings, magazines can too depending on what type it is and they will also help with specific subjects that lean toward the popular side so you can discuss things with your friends, newspapers so you can have intelligent conversations with your friends about world events, and books is just so broad that anything will be covered. Depends on what you get. All of these will help improve your vocabulary, some will be spoken some will be "written".

[Guest yangbin]

Hi,

Thanks for your reply! Well, I have two sides that I want to improve!

First, my chinese is general, get more vocabulary for my speaking etc... and so I was thinking about novels! (there are dialogues, and narration etc.. which is good, no?)

Then, I was thinking about books in a specific domain to get a certain kind of vacabulary!

But anyway, the priority is my chinese in general, the thing is that I dont know what to read, for two reasons.

First, im kind of scared to take a book i dont know if im ready for it, and dont know if i need to check each words when i read, or just go throught like this!

Second reason, I asked my teacher what kind of advanced classes i could find in the Uni. which could be good for me, and she replied that i did not need that, I was already ready! But, Im not ready at all !!!!

Thanks in advanced for any kind of advice !

[fireball9261]

I think novels would be the best for your general vocabulary improvement, especially the novels you already know about the stories; i.e. the translated classics. The reasons are the ones you have listed, and you would be spending the time to learn the words and sentences, but not the stories. It would be harder to misunderstand the stories just because you don't know Chinese well enough. Thus, you would make less mistakes with the unfamiliar Chinese words and grammars.

You want to make sure you DO NOT check dictionary all the time. If you don't know the word, skip it. Guess at the meaning of the word. You could do so by part of its radicals. If you already know the stories, it would be even easier. When a word keeps on showing up and you get to know where it usually shows up in a sentence and which words it is associated with most, you could then check the dictionary to verify/confirm its meaning. In this way, you would remember the word clearer, and hopefully you would already know how to use it in various situations. In addition, this word would be one of the more frequently used words, so you wouldn't waste your time to memorize it.

The key is to read a lot books in a short time, and do not have any pressure on your mind that you must understand every single word and sentence in those books!!! Try to pick the books in areas you like. I liked Romance and Science Fiction and Historical Fictions, so I read a lot of those when I was studying English. I read about 10-15 fictions a week (from library), and I was able to improve my vocabularies and English grammer a lot within a year: From Begginer level to Advanced level (enough to following my UC Irvine normal classes).

I also learned my Chinese when I was a young child. I learned to read my favorite children's story in the Chinese newspaper around 5 years old (my dad kept on falling asleep while reading them to me!) I ended up reading world news and politics on Chinese newspapers when I was 7 years old and Classical Chinese novels when I was 8. As I said, the key is to read a lot. I generally read about 1 Chinese (children's) book per day around those days + 2 different adult newspapers. I also had the advantage of being able to talk to other native speakers, so... I think that is important, too. When I needed to learn English in a hurry, I used my experiences in learning Chinese with great results.

Good luck!

[Guest yangbin]

Hi,

Thank you very much for your post! GREAT help!!

However ive got few questions !

1 So, the best, is not to search the vocabulary all the time, just words that keep on showing up, right?

2 You speak about Novels that I would have already read, in order to be helpful when I would read in chinese, so... would you think that reading foreign novels translanted in chinese is a good idea? or should i stay with pur chinese novels?

3 By curiosity where do you come from? cause you said in your post that you studied english and chinese, so both are not your mother tongues?

Thx again foryour help ! Quite encouraging!

[roddy]

Look up vocabulary when you feel a need to - maybe you think you know what a word means but you aren't sure, so you want to check, or you've seen a word 10 times and it's starting to annoy you, etc. But there's no need to look everything you don't know up - for one thing it'll ruin the reading experience, for another not all vocabulary will be useful - ie an obscure character in the name of a person who is mentioned only once can probably be ignored.

Apart from that, stick to what you know / enjoy. If you are a science fiction fan start with the shortest science fiction stories you can find, then work your way up to novels. If you love cars, try a motoring magazine. Etc, etc.

[muyongshi]

You don't want to look up every word but you want to look up the very key ones and then just a few other you are interested in. So the ones that affect your ability to understand need to be looked up but those that don't affect don't look up. But what you can do which is probably the fastest of all methods is mark the word and rabbit ear the page if there is something you want to look up (once again you can't look up EVERY word unless you are only not getting about 5 words every chapter) or take a paper a scribble them down really fast as you read. But the goal is to read, read, read. Don't break rhythm unless needed (but 15 books a week is a bit to lofty in my opinion- with my current schedule I think I could do 2 a month, and 3 if I was very disciplined).

I also a agree with Roddy but it can be a good idea to throw in something you are not used to reading from time to time (just so long as you can stick to it long enough to finish it) as it can help fill in some gaps.

[yelei_1981]

movies

[muyongshi]

Movies are good but in my opinion you almost have to take notes on them to get as much out of them as you would out of a lot of reading (unless you can remember and reproduce really fast)

[fireball9261]

Hi,

However ive got few questions !

1 So, the best, is not to search the vocabulary all the time, just words that keep on showing up, right?

2 You speak about Novels that I would have already read, in order to be helpful when I would read in chinese, so... would you think that reading foreign novels translanted in chinese is a good idea? or should i stay with pur chinese novels?

3 By curiosity where do you come from? cause you said in your post that you studied english and chinese, so both are not your mother tongues?

Thx again foryour help ! Quite encouraging!

Actually, I am a native Chinese speaker from Taiwan, so my Chinese learning experiences was from the time when I was about 4 or 5 years old to about 7 or 8 years old. At about 4 1/2 years old, I just learned a little Chinese characters (maybe less than 200 or so -- more like less than 100). Most of my Chinese vocabularies were not there at all because I had not gone to the kindergarden, and I didn't go to day care like today's kids. My mom and maid were usually very busy for house works and only spoke to me in baby terms, and there was no TV at all. I learned my characters from my dad -- He wrote down a few words for me to write them repeatedly. He also read to me the children's stories at night before I went to bed.from his adult Chinese newspapers -- yes, there were also children's newspapers at the time, but we didn't subscribe them. I was able to only understand about 30% of the Chinese words from the very easy Chinese children's stories. I just guessed at all the other words -- I did not know how to check the dictionary yet!!! I also forgot to ask adults what the words meant because I was a little bit shy. I was very used to learning things or figuring things out myself anyway. It was a kind of a game for me to guess at the meanings of the words. Only after about two years later when I had entered elementary school, I learned how to use the dictionary. However, I was already reading the adult Chinese newspaper without too much problems by that time. It was really an accident for me to learn Chinese this way.

When I went to U.S. at age 18, I had to get my English level up quickly to get into the U.S. college. Although I had studied 6 years of English, my English is really at the Beginning level in all areas (reading, writing, speaking, and listening)! I was taking my English as Second Language classes as well as Advanced English Writing and Advanced American Literature classes in an U.S. High School!!! I had to write research papers for more than 3 pages most of the times, and one of the final paper was 10 pages long!!! I decided I would use my experiences in learning Chinese to learn English. Like I said, I borrowed 10-15 books in English per week and read like crazy. I watched TV programs, especially the movies I had already watched before and knew the stories so that I could concentrate on the way they spoke and not the stories. Within one year - one and 1/2 year, I was able to get pretty good scores in U.S. College Entrance Exams (SAT, ACT, and TOFEL) and got into University of California, Irvine's ICS department (which was a very hot department at the time and required high scores). I was also able to follow my class lectures in UC Irvine and got good grades -- Dean's Honor List. That is why I know this method works because I have used it successfully for both learning Chinese and English.

I know some of the translated novels are not translated well (into Chinese). That is why I would suggest you use the good ones (maybe get some suggestions from your Chinese teachers and friends), and the good ones are usually the translated world Classics, like A Tale of Two Cities, etc. However, there is no guarantees. I know Taiwan had some very good translated novels -- I really like my old copy of the Count of Monte Cristo. Even some of the newer Science Fiction books as well as the Romance books were translated pretty well in Taiwan. I am not sure the current state of translations in mainland China? I heard the Computer books' translations are dismal (from students of the Fudan University). If you could have someone explaining to you the simple plot lines of some of the Chinese books, maybe you could just go for the Chinese novels. The idea is not to have any Chinese translations nearby when you read the book. For the movies or TV programs, do not have any English subtitles on the screen! Otherwise, it would not have any effect.

In addition, use your time in the bathroom for reading. You are going to sit there for a while any way. I found it to be the excellent time for reading. However, if you are too nervous about learning your words, you might have trouble to ... Anyway, it would be a good training for you to relax and enjoy what you are reading even if it's in a language you don't quite understand. Good luck! I mean for going to the bathroom ...

[Guest yangbin]

Ok thanks all for the replies!

Well, I dont want movies, i dont have a good memory when I use my 'listening'! Above all, I understand quite a lot when I watch movies (easy films like jackie chan films ), but not the news for example ..arf !

Anyway, Im gonna try to find good novels! I dont know if foreign books are well translated in chinese, but i can try! Or else, I would love to read Jin Ying books, but the vocabulary could be a bit harsh! So, im gonna try to find something more 'modern' ... !

[Xiao Kui]

my vote is for magazines. You get exposed to a wide variety of vocab and the important words that show up again and again really stick out because you encounter them in such different contexts. Also makes it easier to understand and talk abt current events (if it's a news magazine such as the Chinese "Newsweek"-style magazines.) I've used a lot of different reading materials to improve my Chinese over the past 10 years and for me, magazines have turned out to be the most efficient. Too bad I got into them after reading several long novels.

For me, the problem with novels has been: new vocab introduced is often limited in variety or deals with a specific subject that you may or may not encounter in everyday life. For example if you read Lao She's Rickshaw Boy you'll learn a lot of words that are specific to rickshaws and/or the rickshaw industry , and you're not likely to run into these often outside of the book. In some of these older novels both the dialogue and narrative will use words that are now obsolete. The dialogue in some novels will introduce a lot of words that are specific to certain dialects or regions of China. If you are reading a crime novel the scope of the new vocab might be limited to police terminology.

When you read a magazine you encounter specific vocab such as this but you get it in 1-3 page doses, and in the next article you're exposed to sth different. Also it's just so much more encouraging because each time you finish an article you have a sense of accomplishment, of having finished sth, whereas if you're a beginner it could take a month or more to plod through a Chinese novel.

(BTW, I'm not saying don't read Rickshaw Boy -it's important for learning abt history and culture and it's a good (if depressing) story. But it's not the best for improving your vocab - read it when you're ready for it.)

[calibre2001]

Do not discount out movies and song lyrics.

For movies, I recommend enabling the chinese subtitles on non-chinese movies. Why? Well I find that translations are generaly speaking more stiff and text-booky and therefore it's easier to pick up new words/slangs etc.

With songs, I study the songs I like using karaoke videos (check out sites like youtube).

I would jot down the unfamiliar words that frequently appear, not all the unknown words which is too tiring. Admittedly the scope of vocab from movies and songs can be limited too but hey I use these to get some relief and cheap thrills when I can't crack certain passages in a book/magazine.

The trick is to use a variety of sources to gain exposure from time to time.

[Guest yangbin]

XiaoKui your post is interesting, however Ive got the feeling that I could encounter the same problem with magazines!

I mean, if i read magazine about politic I will just get formal vacabulary about politic, etc.

The fact is to read to get vocabulary! And so, need to find the best format! So, yeah,this is confusing lol ! For sure novels are great to get vocabulary, but in the same time newspaper and magazines as well....such a dilemma

ps: I tried to check two books today ! First one by Jin yong, and the othe one a chinese thriller! well , I found Jin yong quite harsh, but I managed to understand quite well, and quickly the other one! (i just read the first chapter for both)

[Bureaucratist]

As a chinese, I may recommend a website where converged many cyber novels.

That is http://www.cmfu.com/.

Most of authors are undergraduates, there are really many daily chinese words in such novels. Select some modern novels, and you'll find some of them are less of literature values, but full of languages values.

I partially or totally agree with the posts above, a lot of readings are necessary to improve one's second language.

From the posts above, I found I'm not industrious enough, I can hardly finish a Chinese novel in a month, not to mention English books! (Despite if it's boring)

I've bought lolita, originally planned 1 or 2 month to finish it, now I have to change my plan, thanks for your precious experiences on languages studying.

[wushijiao]

I'm a big fan of newspapers, magazines, and books, and I think it is best to read them all.

Newspapers help your overall vocab. Importantly, they also help your scanning and skimming skills (as you read different headlines, looking for a good article). They also keep you up to date on current news and trends.

Magazines are good for the reasons listed by Xiao Kui.

Overall, however, I strongly believe in the power of books. I think books can help your Chinese level improve in a way that magazines and newspapers can't.

Authors tend to repeat the same vocab again and again. After a while, you start to learn the vocabulary of the author. Books, especially novels, often include more "spoken"-style Chinese. Non-fiction books have the advantage of looking at a subject in more depth and detail than you'll get in any magazine article.

As far as looking up vocab: here's is my system: First, look up every word for the first 50 pages or so. I generally would write the new words on cards (or put them in a flashcard pile in Pleco). I also underline anything interesting in a book. If I want to read for a while, and then look up words afterwards, then I usually double underline any new words. This can be a painstaking process, sometimes slogging it out at two pages per hour. But after the first 50 pages (ie. familiar with the new vocab, theme/plot), I might find that I'd be reading at 5-10 pages per hour. Then by the end of the book, I might be reading at 10-20 pages per hour.

Of course, after a while, you won't really need to use the dictionary nearly as much.

All of this can seem hard and time-consuming, because it is. But as anyone who has finished a book in Chinese will probably tell you, you have a deeper sense of achomplishment than you do when you just randomly read the newspaper. However, and ironically, I think books can be a bit easier than newpapers and magazines. That's because newpaper-speak (idioms, abbreviations, spoken language mixed with academic language) can often be fairly hard to understand if you are just starting out reading real materials.

[Guest yangbin]

Ok, this is clear!

I would have a question : Is wuxi novel harder than the others? I found it harder to understand, all the techniques and expression in wuxi novel are quite tricky!

What do you think about it?

Thx again ^^

[gato]

As far as looking up vocab: here's is my system: First, look up every word for the first 50 pages or so. I generally would write the new words on cards (or put them in a flashcard pile in Pleco). I also underline anything interesting in a book. If I want to read for a while, and then look up words afterwards, then I usually double underline any new words.

This is a good idea, but with a caveat: if you need to look up, say, more than 10% of the words -- 20 words per page, assuming each page has 200 words (not characters) -- then the material is probably too hard for you. Find something easier and come back to the hard stuff later.

But as anyone who has finished a book in Chinese will probably tell you, you have a deeper sense of achomplishment than you do when you just randomly read the newspaper.

I used to read magazines from cover and cover. With the "lookup every word" approach, I'd end up with around 200 or more new words for my vocab list. It feels pretty good to be able to finish a 100+-page magazine in its entirety.

Is wuxi novel harder than the others? I found it harder to understand, all the techniques and expression in wuxi novel are quite tricky!

Wuxia (martial arts) novels tend to have more wenyan wen (classical Chinese), so they would be hard if you haven't studied classical Chinese.

[Rhubarb]

Above all, I understand quite a lot when I watch movies (easy films like jackie chan films ), but not the news for example ..arf !

And yet facts are easier to understand than perspectives, but I know what you mean, I'd advise you to read novels to learn different narrative techniques, then pick up some contemporary lexicon from newspapers, this only requires some straightforward dictionary lookup. Then you can start decoding the news, but you'll learn more about the format than you'll get information.

[fireball9261]

I also agree with Bureaucratist and recommend www.cmfu.com. It has a lot of novels of different types. Although some of those novels do use wrong words in places sometimes, they could help you increasing your vocabularies in general -- Just remember Chinese have the tradition of using the words of the same pronounciations interchangeably ... sometimes ... ; some of the authors in www.cmfu.com just do it more than the print-book authors.