WARNING: The Great China Construction Bank scam

[foodtarget]

***This starts out as a complaint but turns into a rant***

:evil::evil:

I'm in the middle of a similar situation right now, and I am simply beside myself with rage Every so often when I try to withdraw money from an ATM at CCB, I get a message that the transaction failed due to server error/timeout/communication problems. Usually it clears up within a day and I can get my money, no harm no foul. But this time, it's been about 4 days with no cash coming out. And when looking at my online statement today, I realized that all those withdrawls I tried to make posted to my account, even though no money came out!! When I ask CCB about this, they always say it must be Bank of America's problem. When I call BoA, the very polite but rather clueless customer service reps always say "well your account and your card look fine to me, I don't know what to do, thanks for being a valued customer!" So basically each bank says it's not their fault, which seems rediculous since they're supposed to be partner banks. Meanwhile, I'm stuck here in China with a dwindling cash supply, and my cell phone is out of service because the collect calls to the BoA service center weren't as "collect" as I thought they'd be, so I now owe $20 on my cell phone, which I don't have because, ironically, I can't withdraw money. And while the drones at CCB and BoA are very good at feigning sympathy for my plight (moreso on the American end), none of them seem very willing to go out of their way to help me, and I seriously doubt they lose any sleep over the broke American college student who will have to start begging for food money soon.

Has anyone else ever had this kind of problem and thought, "Is China really worth this much trouble and frustration?" I can't remember ever having this problem when I traveled to Canada or Japan, just here in China. And as much as I love studying Chinese, situations like these and other unsavory aspects of China make me want to go home and not come back.

And another thing, every time I call BoA, they say they are experiencing "larger than normal call volume", which is only true if the call volume is larger than the "normal" amount (which the center is supposedly prepared to handle). But it seems more like they always have a call volume that exceeds what they are prepared to handle. This wouldn't be so bad if they had a 24hr service line. You would think that a nationwide American bank with international partners could swing a 24hr service line, but guess not.

Right now I just really hate CCB and BoA for essentially stealing my money and leaving me broke (I'm not sure which one is actually responsible, but in any case, one bank took my money and the other one isn't helping me). And yes, I've already filed a claim with BoA and they have temporarily credited the money back to my account, so hopefully I will get the full amount back in the long run, but still... ahh!! it is just so frustrating and.... I wish CCB were a person so I could kick their ass!

[yonglin]

I'm sorry to hear that. Is it not possible for you to use the ATMs of any other banks? Sometimes, the only thing you can do is boycott.

[imron]

If it's a visa (debit or credit) card, other banks should also work. If not, you should check on the back of the card to see if it's part of the visa cirrus or some other network, which might also work with some banks (I would start by checking with Bank of China, then ICBC etc). There will almost certainly be a fee for the transaction, but if you're not making lots of small transactions this probably won't be too much of an issue.

[cdn_in_bj]

I'm sorry to hear about your situation and I can imagine how frustrating it must be. I don't have much to add myself, except that I've posted in another thread that a visiting friend was never able to withdraw money in BJ using his foreign ATM card. Fortunately, it was a flat-out failure and so no money was deducted from his account for the failed attempts. Strangely, he did get it to work once during his visit to the western provinces. Another visiting friend with an overseas HSBC card had no problems, however. I personally have never tried using my foreign ATM card here - I've always relied on converting cash/travelers cheques and using my foreign credit card for larger purchases at stores that can process it.

[roddy]

Using another bank would probably incur fees you wouldn't pay using the partner bank. 'Course, if you actually get the money it might be worth the fees.

Is there a BoA office in Beijing you can contact - it's unlikely to be much use, but might be worth a try.

[pretegra]

Ugh.. so I just opened a BoA bank account so I could access CCB's atm without fee, but now I'm having second thoughts. Is carrying cash still the ideal way to bring funds? Or should I open a local bank account. I'm gonna be staying in China for two months and I'm not even sure how much I should bring. Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks!

[cdn_in_bj]

Is carrying cash still the ideal way to bring funds?

Cash or USD travellers cheques is what I would recommend.

Or should I open a local bank account.

You should do this regardless. It's quite easy to do - all you need is your passport and a small amount of cash - and in my experience bank staff here are quite willing to help you fill out the application form if your Chinese is not up to snuff.

I'm gonna be staying in China for two months and I'm not even sure how much I should bring. Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks!

A lot depends on what part of China will you be staying in (and also where you'll be staying - hotels or a friend's apartment) and what will you be doing here.

If you start to run low on cash and can't get your foreign ATM card to work, you could always wire funds in if you run out, but it may take some time for the wire transfer to clear.

[pretegra]

wow. this forum is awesome haha. thanks cdn_in_bj for the prompt reply.

we're planning to stay in beijing and rent out an apartment for 2 months. we're planning to attend blcu's 4 week program during the latter half of the trip. are your recommendations still as is?

[cdn_in_bj]

Short-term rentals are not that easy to find. Your best bet is to find someone that is leaving and to take over their lease (sublet). If you can find one, I think you should budget around 2500 RMB/month for a 1-bedroom that's not too far from your school. Though I think you'll have an easier time subletting a room. Do note that if you're able to find a 2-month lease, you'll be expected to pay the full amount upfront, plus a deposit (usually one month's rent). So that's 7500 RMB right there, though you'll get back 2500 RMB when you leave.

As for food costs, if it's just the two of you, then 150 RMB/day should be more than sufficient to eat out every day as long as you don't get fancy. Of course, if you like to cook, then even better - it'll be healthier and you'll save some money.

Also have a look at these threads:

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/13532-lots-of-questions-about-coming-to-beijing

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/14387-livng-costs-in-beijing-after-rent

I have no idea about tuition costs, but I'm sure that a search will turn up some relevant threads.

[yonglin]

I don't know why people have so much trouble with their foreign ATM cards? I have a VISA bank card with no fees for withdrawals abroad (although I think they discount the exchange rate at about 1%). I've lived abroad in the UK, Canada and China and it has worked perfectly everywhere, even in ridiculously remote places up in Xinjiang.

The first time I went to China, I brought some cash because I'd been told ATMs might not work too well everywhere. Such a pain! I wish I had known better! First I had to pay for commission to exchange it into USD and then I actually had to go the bank physically to exchange it once in China. Buying travellers' cheques could be quite expensive as well, especially if you need to buy them in foreign currency like Euro or USD.

If you're planning on spending some time abroad, you may want to shop around with different banks to see which one offers the best services for using your card abroad. Both services and charges can vary quite a lot.

[imron]

I also use my overseas card everywhere and have never had problems. However I guess if you've run into problems before, like cdn_in_bj has, then I guess you might tend to prefer other methods.

@pretegra, if you open a local bank account, don't open one with the Bank of China. My recommendation would be the Industrial and Commercial Bank of China (ICBC)

[self-taught-mba]

don't open one with the Bank of China

Why?

[imron]

Because their service is horrible, they're not as prevalent as other banks, plus previously they had inter-province restrictions on withdrawals. I'm not sure if this is still the case, but you'd definitely want to find out before opening an account with them, especially if you're going travelling, as that would be a big problem.

[gougou]

previously they had inter-province restrictions on withdrawals.

Restrictions as in not being able to withdraw money at all? Then that is not the case anymore, I was able to withdraw in Shanghai just about a week ago (at a non-BoC ATM, if I recall correctly). As to limits or transaction fees, I didn't pay attention.

[cdn_in_bj]

I would go with ICBC, as imron stated there are more branches and also for the reason that their English online banking system is quite good, grammar issues aside. As far as I know, BoC does not as of yet have English online banking.

That said, I also have a BoC account as they are a bit better when it comes to FX conversions. For example, they can cash Canadian $ travellers cheques, which few or no ICBC branches can handle. Also, I don't need to fill out any forms when I change money at BoC - with ICBC, there's a simple form that you have to fill out. And I seem to recall that it was in Chinese only. It's not a big deal, but it's one extra step in the process.

Because their service is horrible

Can't say I've noticed the service being any worse or better than ICBC. If anything, the wait times at my ICBC branch are longer, as it's a bigger branch.

plus previously they had inter-province restrictions on withdrawals. I'm not sure if this is still the case

Restrictions as in how much you are allowed to withdraw? There may be restrictions on inter-province bank-book withdrawals, but these shouldn't apply to debit cards.

Also, to clarify what I wrote previously, it was not I who experienced ATM issues, it happened to a friend that came to visit (I went around BJ trying out different ATMs with him). I've never tried my foreign ATM here so I don't know if I'd have better luck. I'm guessing that those with problems are in the minority, but it is definitely a real risk. So even if you have great faith in your bank, it's still best to bring at least a bit of cash (USD) to tide you over in case your ATM card lets you down. My friend didn't heed my advice and I had to bail him out when he got here.

[Shadowdh]

Cash or USD travellers cheques is what I would recommend.

No not USD take GBP I found that USD go for much less that pounds do...

I would also recommend ICBC, never a problem with their machines (have had trouble with other machines not taking my foreign card) and the service seems good so far...

[imron]

Restrictions as in how much you are allowed to withdraw?

No, restrictions on actually working outside the province where you got the card.

Then that is not the case anymore, I was able to withdraw in Shanghai just about a week ago

Shanghai and Beijing were always special cases. I'd be interested to know if it worked outside of those major cities, and in other provinces.

Just did a quick hunt regarding fees and it seems BoC charges 10 RMB for non-local withdrawals, or 12 RMB for non-local withdrawals if you use a different bank's ATM. ICBC charges 1% + 2 yuan, so it will work out significantly cheaper if you are making smaller transactions.

I will agree that the BoC is better than other banks for FX conversions. But you can do that without setting up a bank account

[mr.stinky]

my present BofC account is in kunming, but planning to move to guangxi, the wee tiny

town of baise. there they have 3 BofC branches, at the main one the nice gentleman

explained that to use baise as my "home" account, i would need to open a baise

account and transfer funds from the kunming branch. he tells me once the new account

is opened, i can use my magic debit card to transfer funds. **oops, i forgot to ask

him if i could transfer both rmb and usd** he also said there would be no need to close

the kunming account, just leave a zero balance.

out of curiosity, i used my card to check my account balance at the atm. no problem

checking balance.....didn't try to withdraw.

[pretegra]

Wow, thanks all for the information. It's much appreciated. I apologize for the thread going off its original topic.

[self-taught-mba]

No, restrictions on actually working outside the province where you got the card.

Wow. that's a serious restriction there. (I'm following you tonight Imron, I am your posting stalker:mrgreen:)

We had a client who lived in Shanghai for two years and traveled a lot and he swore by Citic.

By the way I never got all of my money back from China construction Bank. The last time a company cheated me, and I didn't get my money back I became their competitor in anger. A little bit harder with a bank though. Any large investors out there with deep connections with the governments banking system here by any chance?