Dating/flirting across the language barrier?

[Colossus]

I am no old, sleazy sexpat out in China just to find a Asian take home wife. However, I do like to flirt and date women. While I have the angle (good-looking foreigner) that makes approaches easier and first attraction quicker, I find flirting incredibly difficult, even with Chinese women who are relatively good English speakers.

I have always approached dating and attracting women as an art to be improved and refined over time. Obviously there are techniques that attract women. I like trying to get into a woman's head, be that guy that fulfills her ever desire, has her going crazy and can't get off her mind, etc.

Call me lame, fucked up, narcissistic, overly romantic, whatever--I have been reasonably good at it--at least with native English speakers.

However, since coming to China, I've found that the language barrier and cultural differences are becoming a HUGE gap that I'm having difficulty crossing with ease. I like to make subtle jokes, sexual innuendos, and approach every relationship with a degree of bravado that is flat out failing here.

The subtleties can't be grasped by even reasonably good speakers of English, because it usually requires me to explain the nuance, which makes the whole joke stupid. The sexual innuendos that I could make in America seem to strike a jarring chord here, I suspect because of some cultural difference.

Recent example: A Chinese girl I am pretty sure is at least initially attracted to me was pulling a sticker off of my pants and accidentally almost pulled them down. She apologized, but I said in a joking way, "It's ok, I know you want to get my pants off."

Normally such a technique would work with an American girl because it would initiate "playful sexual bander" mode for the two of us. However, she just gave me a really weird look and told me that she was just trying to get the sticker off.

Finally there is the bravado aspect that I believe every relationship should be approached with. In America at least, women want what they can't get, so the kiss-asses end up get stuck with the bill and then dumped while the assertive guy (sometimes a jerk) gets the girl obsessed with him. However, in China, all the men seem relatively submissive and dating protocols (no kissing until several weeks in, etc) seem quite different.

So please give me a hand here!

Should I accept the cultural differences, or are certain things universal? How do I get over the language barrier and access the humor that women love but do it in a sexy (not slapstick) way? Help!

Two things--I'm not doing this for the sex, I'm doing it because I like women and I like attracting them.

I don't want to discuss the morality of my actions. If you want to do so, you can start a new thread and I will defend my views there.

[liuzhou]

Oh dear.

[muyongshi]

So please give me a hand here!

I let the ladies do that

(that was a joke for all those that didn't get the innuendo!)

[roddy]

The sexual innuendos that I could make in America seem to strike a jarring chord here, I suspect because of some cultural difference.

Impossible. Try repeating the joke, louder. That always works for me.

[cdn_in_bj]

Where has shanghaikai been lately??

[Lu]

Different culture, different language. This is not the US (or where are you from), this is China, everything is different. Flirting is universal, the way it is carried out is highly dependent on culture.

Like you said, you practiced and polished your flirting techniques for a long time, until you got it right, but they only work in your own culture. They will not work in China, period. You'll have to mostly start over again, or limit your flirting to American women who will get your drift. To get to the same flirting level as you seem to be used to back home will require a high level of Chinese, and an excellent understanding of Chinese culture. Both take a lifetime to achieve, so good luck.

[gato]

I said in a joking way, "It's ok, I know you want to get my pants off."

Normally such a technique would work with an American girl because it would initiate "playful sexual bander" mode for the two of us. However, she just gave me a really weird look and told me that she was just trying to get the sticker off.

I'm stumped. She's probably a lesbian.

[simonlaing]

Hey Colossus, (I will make the big generalizations as the other hands want to make fun.)

First you have to figure out what kind of girl she is? If she's born and bread Shanghai/Hong kong she will be more open minded. If she's from some of the more 2nd tier cities chances are she will be more traditional.

Most Chinese girls don't have a boyfriend until college. So those under 24 are quite naive and often traditional.

On the traditional side, look to small types of flirtations, with the eyes, walking close buying her small gifts like flowers. Even smiling michieviously can work. These ones also don't like PDAs so if you make a move make sure it's private.

Though they will understand you meaning if it is late at night and you invite them to your apartment at night it will be more than just "tea". Though they will probably only agree with you after the 3rd date.

Just walking with you and having dinner is big. On flirtations girls sometimes like simple humor or innocent teasing. Don't jump to the sex innuendo and make fun. The sexual tension and excitement will be there with just being close to each other and talking about things.

Also if you do want to bring up sexual proposals do it in a vague way so you don't actually need to explain it. If she interprets it in another way and says so, it often means she doesn't want to take that step yet.

Don't worry most people find this kind of flirting tricky. You difficulty is quite common.

have fun,

Simon:)

[Colossus]

Impossible. Try repeating the joke, louder. That always works for me.

I wonder if there is a problem identifying sarcasm.

Anyways, thanks simonliang. I live in Chongqing. There is no particular girl I am interested in the moment, just trying to lay a broad foundation by flirting with a lot of people.

A few questions: How do you distinguish a girl who just wants to "hang out as friends" from a girl who is attracted to you. I regard this as somewhat high level importance. Generally the flirty banter gives me a good gauge of how she feels.

[liuzhou]

Whatever you do, don't use the word 'flirt' with your victims. They will go home, look it up in their dictionaries and never speak to you again.

The most common Chinese translations carry quite negative associations. English is more neutral.

[owshawng]

" I said in a joking way, "It's ok, I know you want to get my pants off."

Normally such a technique would work with an American girl because it would initiate "playful sexual bander" mode for the two of us. However, she just gave me a really weird look and told me that she was just trying to get the sticker off."

Maybe by sticker she meant you, You missed the innuendo.

[Rhubarb]

So please give me a hand here!

Should I accept the cultural differences, or are certain things universal?

Stick to the protocol! It's not a language barrier issue, feelings are feelings everywhere. I wouldn't be shocked to see a girl adopting your flirting strategy in China, but if I ever see a Chinese girl flirting with my man, she'd get a slap on her face. Language barrier is a huge asset for Chinese girls outside of their country you see.

[outcast]

I find that comparing them (or parts of them) to beutiful things (like pearls) and saying sweet things gets their attention.

[Meng Lelan]

As long as you are in China pursuing relationships, listen to simonlaing. His advice is excellent as always. You're in China, not in the US, so do things the Chinese way not the US way.

Lelan

[eeraser]

This is easy. There are some cultural movies out there that deal with such playful banter and I am sure there are some for China. I know of a really good European one. If you go to Europe or Amsterdam, you should watch Deuce Bigalow European Gigolo first. Hope this helps!

[adrianlondon]

I'm not sure if this translates across the sexes, but I found a big difference between Chinese and Western guys. Westerners like to be flirted with; Chinese want you to state outright that you want sex, or for you to immediately start the dating protocol.

Jokes tend not to translate.

I would have immediately corrected you and told you that you meant to say, of course, "trousers". Unless you are Superman, in which case having your pants on over your underwear is perfectly acceptable.

[nitropuppy]

Although I'm married now and wouldn't practice any of these techniques anymore, I'm reminded of the lessons I learned long ago. They were lessons taught to me by the ugliest son of a bitch that ever walked the earth. (not really but he was no Brad Pitt or Jett Li)

This guy also taught me phenomenal fishing techniques. He fished for Bass, pickeral, or Walleye in the U.S. He would cast every few feet on a shoreline. Working his way along methodically. Reeling in quickly and then casting again. He'd carefully present the shiny lure in the first few yards of where it fell. Surprise the fish. Jigging and popping it. Then after a few yards and nothing biting, he'd just reel it in quickly for another cast in a different spot. With this technique he covered more ground and enticed more fish than the guy sitting still with a worm on a bobber. He landed more fish than anybody I ever went fishing with. I learned that technique and it worked very, very well for me.

(Now I hope this part won't offend woman but it's just the facts as I see / heard them)

He equated his fishing technique to dating woman. He would say "Woman are a lot like fish, they're only hungry and will bite only during a few special days each week or month." But, like fish..... there are many woman, he would say. So "You gotta cover a lot of ground." Then he would add "Now the trick is to surprise them and leave a moments notice to either bite or pass". Present your bait in an enticing manner but pull it away quickly. Cast again for another fish. This was his attitude.

He then went on and explained that a good and talented fisherman pulls in many forgetable fish. Small fish, ugly fish, or fish not worth keeping. Those you quickly forget. But since he covers more ground and his technique is not time wasting, he pulls in more fish than anybody. And the "great" fish, the "Lunkers", the "keepers", are just a matter of statistical inevitability. Those are the ones you'll remember. Those are the ones you take pictures of. Those are the ones you remember for years and years.

He applied this same technique with woman. He'd meet them. Present himself in the best possible manner and then give them a blatent option. "You want to go home with me" or he would even be cruder, "you want to go F...?" It was sudden and it was shocking. It was to the point. And he'd also add "I'm leaving in a short time, so make up your mind". He had more bites than anybody I have ever met. He got denied too. But that statistical inevitability thing was at play.

And quite a few were prize catches. Real beauties. And he stuffed and mounted them and all the other fisherman were jealous.

****Disclaimer; I deeply apologize to any and all woman who might be offended by the analogy. I love all that's feminine. I really do. It's just the nature of things and can't be denied. It's just the way we hunter/gatherer men think. (some things can't be changed by evolution, political correctness, or civil behavioral teachings. )

[ruoxuan]

I've been living in chongqing for 4 yrs, and I feel local girls here are relatively open-minded compared with the girls in my hometown. so maybe she is just not interested in you.

you practiced and polished your flirting techniques for a long time, until you got it right, but they only work in your own culture. They will not work in China, period. You'll have to mostly start over again, or limit your flirting to American women who will get your drift.

totally agree. at least they would not work on me. on many occassions, our reactions to sexual innuendos like "It's ok, I know you want to get my pants off" would probably just laugh them up or just ignore them. I would think that might be a dangerous signal rather than a sexy flirting way. but it depends on your level of intimacy with a girl. since you are in China, try to do it the chinese way. I think winkings, ambiguous sweet words will do. but don' jump to sex innuendos unless you've been dating with her quite some time.

How do you distinguish a girl who just wants to "hang out as friends" from a girl who is attracted to you

if she only wants to hang out as friends, she might ask her friends for company, a bunch of people hanging together. but if she is attracted to you, there will be only two of you and there's possibility she takes the initiative to flirt with you and later to ask you out.

[Lu]

Nitropuppy, I quite believe your friend gets laid a lot (and slapped in the face a lot). If you see women only as 'mounting and stuffing' potential, that is a great method. It also shows a profound misogyny and complete disrespect for women as people. And actually not all men think like that, some can appreciate women beyond their vaginas.

This, by the way, also means they don't 'love all that's feminine' undiscriminately. There are actually differences between individual women, so that when you take the time to actually interact with them as people, you'll find that you love some while disliking others. You know, same as with men.

[anonymoose]

I don't know whether it's a language thing, or cultural thing, or maybe a bit of both, but Chinese people tend to take anything you say to them much more at face value than westerners. (And I don't just mean in flirting/relationships.)

So if you really did say "It's ok, I know you want to get my pants off.", the girl quite possibly interpreted this in its literal sense, and thought you are 自作多情 and 自以为是 and 花花公子.

Now I don't want to rag on you about your technique. If it's really as polished and successful as you claim here, then I envy you. But I find women appreciate it much more (especially in China) if you treat them sincerely rather than just as another fish to be caught.