Non-teaching jobs - where to look?

[Xiying]

I hope someone here with experience in getting a non-teaching job in China/HK/TW can give me a few pointers. I just graduated from a top-10 American university with a liberal arts degree and plan on attending law school in a year and a half. After studying Mandarin for a few months, I hope to spend a year working in the region (starting about this summer and extending into the next).

Does anyone have advice on where to look and what kind of jobs I would be qualified for? I really don't have any jobs in mind, though I know I hate teaching and most places in the mainland wouldn't want me anyway. I have near-native conversant ability and high-intermediate written ability in Chinese (am ABC...).

Thanks.

[bottledpoetry]

I'm starting out in the job search too (same deal - a few years before grad school = drawn to China like a magnet, libbie), and from professionals I've talked to, guan xi is very helpful. Since you're from a prestigious university it sounds like, I think it would be worth your time to see if your school has an alumni network in the city you plan to be in and make connections. I know several people who have gotten great jobs that way (a berkeley student "passed on" her translator job to another grad, a consulate worker gave an open house for ucla students, gave great tips, etc.). Looking at websites that have job postings, like amcham-shanghai.org, danwei.org, that's shanghai/beijing classifieds, zhaopin.com are great to see what's out there for non-teaching jobs. They're definitely there, but just takes some savvy.

All this information is stuff that I've gleaned from fervently reading this forum in hopes that I won't be screwed work wise in China do a search and I think you'll find some really helpful advice. Hope that helps!

[BrandeX]

Being Chinese (even American) it would be a bit difficult to get a teaching job let alone anything else. Only speaking chinese as a second language, and refusing to teach you would be competing with regular local workers, (which is technically illegal btw), and would be looking in the sub 2000rmb a month pay range.

[gato]

You might try mailing your resume to law firms in China and see if they would consider taking you as an English editor. See here for an ad for such a position.

http://www.xing.com/app/forum?op=showarticles;id=6707901

Full time English Editor Wanted in One leading law firm in China

A list of foreign law firms in China.

http://www.falv360.com/falvfagui/guowuyuanbuweiguizhangku/sifaxingzheng/2007-05-08/2262.html

149家外国律师事务所驻华代表处

[self-taught-mba]

Or there's always a third alternative:

Look for a job and be willing to accept a certain number of hours of teaching per week. You'd have to be strict with the company about what your limits are but it could be a potential solution. It's cheaper than them hiring English training on the outside, and you get to get the experience.

I've known several foreigners in this type of situation (even with advanced degrees). The key is to make sure what the limits are and that they are explicitly stated so that they don't abuse you. It can really become a great win-win situation because with the money they save from hiring outside teaching they can justify paying you perhaps a somewhat reasonable salary. You could work this into a situation where you are effectively being an intern where they would not otherwise be willing to take on someone. And on your resume could still have a legitimate job written down.

Teaching doesn't have to be an all or nothing proposition and this might be a workable solution if you can stomach it.

Just my two cents from watching many people coming here looking for jobs.

[lilongyue]

Any kind of work you want to do besides teaching will require a lot of wheeling-and-dealing to stand a chance of being considered. There are a lot of Chinese who speak English, and even though a lot of it is substandard they will work for less than half of what a foreigner will work for. So, do you have some really amazing skill that you can offer a Chinese company? Something a Chinese person with decent English and another useful skill (like accounting, or tech-realted skills) doesn't have? You can expect to answer questions like this from a Chinese company, although they might not be so straight forward about it. Even if they don't ask you, this is the reality of life in China, so you'd better be prepared. Having a degree from a good university will impress people like Chinese business men, but doesn't guarantee much. Is your major something that has immediate applicability in the job place?

I know a Taiwanese girl who studied abroad, has a major in business or human resources management, has good English, knows some French, and has been looking for a job here in Hangzhou for several months. Most of the positions she's interviewed for are offering her around 1,300 RMB a month. She's treated like a normal Mainland Chinese college graduate. She said back in Taiwan she could make something close to 7,000 RMB a month starting out. I don't know anything about the job market in Taiwan, but finding work in Hong Kong is about the same as looking for work in the West. The cost of living in much higher in HK or Taiwan, but so are people's salaries.

On second thought, a place like Hong Kong might be better suited for someone like you. Assuming that the Chinese you speak is Mandarin and not Cantonese, this will work for and against you in Hong Kong. You don't really need to speak Cantonese to live and work in Hong Kong (almost everyone speaks English), but Mandarin speakers are in high demand (since most Hong Kong people speak abysmal Mandarin). So, if you could find some kind of position that requires both, and you have a degree from a good university, you stand a better chance of finding non-teaching work in HK than you would in the Mainland.

The first kind of work that comes to mind is translating. Because I'm a translator I've researched translator positions in Hong Kong. They all want Mandarin speakers, but also want either a degree in Mandarin or translation, or 2 years work experience. You might be able to get around this sine you already have a high level of Chinese, but you don't have the experience. Anyway, if I were you, I'd try Hong Kong first. It's also an amazing city!

[Xiying]

How feasible is it to obtain a work visa in mainland China? Is it basically guaranteed if I get a job offer, or are there other requirements like in HK/Taiwan?

I'd very much like to work in Taiwan since I have family there, but they require college graduates to have "two years of relevant work experience" before they are permitted to take on a non-teaching job, and even then, the company would have to demonstrate that they've made an honest failed effort at hiring a local. Hong Kong shouldn't be a problem though since I have a parent born there, and I was born before 1997, so I should be able to obtain the "Right to Land" (be exempt from any visa requirements) if I submit the necessary paperwork. And I do know a slight bit a Cantonese (even though the locals will take me as a mainlander once they hear my heavy accent).

Are there similar job boards for Hong Kong?

Look for a job and be willing to accept a certain number of hours of teaching per week.

I don't quite understand what this entails. Work for a school but do non-teaching tasks? Work for two jobs, one teaching and one not?

[ipsi()]

I don't quite understand what this entails. Work for a school but do non-teaching tasks? Work for two jobs, one teaching and one not?

Rather, work for a company, but be prepared to teach English to other employees of that company for a certain amount of time, maybe a few hours a week.

[Lu]

To legally work in Taiwan as a foreigner you need either two years of relevant work experience or a master's degree (or a Taiwanese spouse). Or you could do what foreigners without either of those things do and stay here on a tourist visa, and fly back and forth to Hong Kong every two months. But Xiying, if you have family in Taiwan, are you perhaps of Taiwanese descent yourself, and can't you get a residence visa or even a Taiwanese passport based on that? (If you're a guy you'll still have to fly out every few months to avoid the army, but it's less often.)

Lilongyue, maybe the best idea for your Taiwanese friend would be to come back to TW and find a job from here with a Taiwanese company that does business on the mainland. There are tons of those, and I imagine they pay a Taiwanese salary rather than a mainland one.

[Xiying]

But Xiying, if you have family in Taiwan, are you perhaps of Taiwanese descent yourself, and can't you get a residence visa or even a Taiwanese passport based on that? (If you're a guy you'll still have to fly out every few months to avoid the army, but it's less often.)

Yeah, I know I could get a ROC passport easily, but since I was born after 1984, and they changed the requirements, I will be restricted to staying at most 183 days per calendar year in Taiwan (changed from at most four consecutive months for those born before 1985) to avoid the draft. This will prevent me from ever staying in Taiwan in the long term until my late 30s (or maybe sooner if the KMT wins the election and abolishes the draft).

I heard you can get an "open" work permit by having lineal relatives with household registration. I do. However, I've also heard that this only applies to minors (ie persons under age 20) because that's the requirement for getting a resident permit and a resident permit is required for a work permit....I think I'll have to call the relevant government office.

[cdn_in_bj]

But Xiying, if you have family in Taiwan, are you perhaps of Taiwanese descent yourself, and can't you get a residence visa or even a Taiwanese passport based on that?

He can get a passport, but without household registration he won't be able to apply for a ROC National ID card which is required in order to legally work.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationality_Law_of_the_Republic_of_China

Also, and this is getting off-topic, but what are the advantages/disadvantages of having a Taiwan passport for foreigners (non-Taiwan residents) who are living on the mainland? I understand that foreigners will be indicated as such in the Taiwan passport, so it seems there will be no benefit for entering/exiting the mainland versus using a US, Canada, British passport.

The only advantage to holding dual passports I can think of is that one can enter Taiwan without a visa...

[atitarev]

Posting 2 big employment sites, their English version. They seem to be quite big and the search produces promising results. Well, at least in my area - I.T.

http://english.meijob.com/

http://english.zhaopin.com/

The Chinese versions are available, of course.

[Xiying]

I understand that foreigners will be indicated as such in the Taiwan passport, so it seems there will be no benefit for entering/exiting the mainland versus using a US, Canada, British passport.

It's actually a "僑" endorsement that shows you're overseas Chinese. But to get a taibaozheng I believe you need a shenfenzheng. The benefit of getting a taibaozheng, I believe, is that it is much cheaper.

[here2learn]

A few other small ideas:

- Teach Chinese to foreigners

- Proofreading work

- Voice work for entertainment or educational materials

- teach english privately at your home or theirs (although a school might not like your appearance, there are plenty of individuals who are not stupid and would be glad to have you)

I know you're looking for something more substantial, but if you need something PT, or something temporary, those are some things I've seen people do.

[Lu]

My impression is that westerners who get an ROC passport do so predominantly because it makes it so much easier to stay in Taiwan.

Xiying, my information was incomplete then, sorry, didn't really look into it. But in any case not only is the KMT winning the elections as we write, I think the DPP also wants to abolish the draft, so you might not have to wait that long.