Where can I find very good, experienced one-to-one Mandarin teachers?

[Chinese Learner]

Hi,

I'm going to Beijing in a few weeks and I want to get a private teacher to study with for 6-8 hours a day. I was initially going to go through a private school; maybe BLI or TLI but I find their prices a bit high therefore I want to see if I can find a teacher myself. However, I want to make sure that I can find a competent experienced 'teacher' who is used to dealing with foreigners rather than a well educated graduate who thinks they can teach but can't because they haven't learned how to teach language...If you know what I mean?

Thank you!

[self-taught-mba]

The short answer is it's not going to be very easy--not for the quality you're looking for at the price you want. As somebody who's trying to run a school, it is becoming increasingly easy to sympathize with cookie cutter, low quality schools because at least they make money. It is not easy trying to have good standards and also make money at the same time. Take that for somebody who's running a school here and trying to maintain some kind of standard.

So let me get this straight: you want to find the kind of teacher that is really experienced and yet somehow doesn't have any teaching hours lined up for eight hours a day. At the same time you want to pay her less than what she can probably earn if she's really that talented working on her own. And you want her to work in your room for 8 hours a day or some noisy cafe? And let's not forget that she's working on her own she will definitely charge more if she is worth her salt because there's no job security, no long-term benefit, no insurance, and no health benefits.

Now there are a lot of schools that are offering a lot of crap and it's really overpriced but if they have quality teachers it's really worth it. Here's why: it's actually harder for you to replicate it than you think. You are thinking they are simply a middleman and pay the teacher one price and charge you another. But the difference is they are the Wal-Mart; they are buying labor hours in bulk so to speak and even if they pay a decent wage to the teachers a full-time job will always be a lot less per hour than a part-time job or contract work.

Then of course there's the whole problem of how to find the person which is what you're asking. Well you could put an ad on that's Beijing and hope for the best. You can go around the universities and you can generally ask around. But what you won't have is the access to the network of teachers where one teacher recommends a friend that they went to school with or they went to the additional training courses with. For example we sent someone to the advanced teachers course and ended up hiring at (least part time) three of her classmates that she met there.

From someone who's running a school here I may tell you that I can only hire about one in 10 (or less) of the teachers/tutors that apply. And I shouldn't even say apply, I should say attend an interview. That doesn't even count the number of resumes that come across and get immediately tossed.

Are you going to post the ad go through the resumes in line up the interviews yourself? If you're willing to do that than go for it but it depends on how much you value your time.

Then of course there's the training and evaluation system that you're buying into when you go to a school. Who's training this person who's evaluating this person? Who's making sure that your progress is on track? Who's chosen a curriculum and materials?

The thing with teachers is is that they are incredibly high paid for this market. To put it in perspective, most of the teachers I know make more than Chinese MBAs. And I'm not just talking about per hour, I mean working a moderate work week making more than an MBA working a 70 hour work week. However, anyone who has done part-time teaching or has otherwise done contract work or freelancing knows half the battle is getting a client that will make it worth your time. As soon as you have picked the person they can dump you at any time and will do so for reasons that are beyond your control even if you are a good teacher. The student gets tired, they give up on Chinese, work gets busy etc.

Accordingly, they are willing to trade some of this high pay for a job that is reliable and stable. You can't offer that. We just had slow month in which we canceled a class because it wasn't worth it. But you better believe the teacher still got paid (we had her work on curriculum improvement instead). That's called "risk reduction" and is part of market dynamics and economics; people are willing to pay to have a reduction in risk. In this case the risk of not making money if they can't find someone on their own.

The teachers that operate totally independently are of course very good at teaching and good at new client acquisition as well. Accordingly, they charge a premium because they're worth it and they know it. In fact, many of them would charge you more than what the full TLI/BLI price would be, and that's assuming that they have that much free time and as soon as they give it to you are no doubt giving up other contracts. And of course you have to find a place unless she's wiling to spend 8 hours in your room together with you. Yes the price you pay at schools has to include their rent as well.

I am often asked by someone if they can just do all of this on their own. Of course, you can. But there's risk involved and there's time involved. And if you choose the wrong teacher you waste even more time. I think the majority of the people on this board fall into the DIY crowd. Sure, people do come here and hire teachers all the time. And some succeed at it. I actually encourage people to do it sometimes. But a lot of the people that think they succeeded don't really know what they got because they have no comparison. I have tracked the progress of a few people in this situation. Results are very mixed. (I used to entertain requests from people that would want one-to-one and a really low price - now I don't. There's no way to please them. They want all of the benefits of the hand selected teacher without having to pay any extra for it. Quite often I have sent them on their way to find one on their own and a few have come crawling back. I still don't take them, because they will never be pleased. They want the price I would pay for a teacher (bulk rate) but don't want to find them themselves nor pay for my time in finding them or rent etc...)

Recently there was a student that wanted to come to our school but instead decided to attend another school. (The previous month we had sent one of our students to the school he was going to attend after being with us for a month, she was then placed in a two on one class with a student that had studied at this other school for six months. The reason she left us is that we didn't have a program to accommodate her and she was living on the other side of Beijing.) The student mentioned the cost. It was really funny because he mentioned a cost below that which I can even hire a teacher - -at least a decent one. It doesn't even begin to take into account my time or rent. It just seems so odd to me because he wants to save a few kuai per hour. It seems to me that the better thing to do would be to get the most out of your lessons and use the time saved and go teach English for a few hours.

Now the girl that went to the same school got to the same level as someone else in one-month as what someone at that school did in six months. (Granted it was fewer hours per day but it was still a full-time program, and she couldn't write boohoo) But basically in 200 or so contact hours she got to the same speaking /listening level as someone in this other school did in 600 contact hours over 6 months.

So it's just basic economics. Assuming that the guy did get similar results, if he would take those 400 hours and apply them towards teaching English (and even assuming that only half of them went actually towards paid hours) it would more than make up for the difference in price. [seriously, if you want you can give your time up for 1/5 of its market value and get a language partner on a one to one exchange and pay absolutely no cash. Why not? Some people get insulted/offended when I say this (especially the Chinese) but it's just a fact of economics. In America it was reversed. I had to give away my time for free cleaning tables in a Chinese restaurant (mind you I already had an MBA) in a desperate attempt to practice my Chinese because the Chinese certainly didn't need me to do language practice with them. Now if I had only learned more than "chao3fan4 hai2shi bai2fan4" I actually would've stayed doing it:x . . .]

But it depends on how much cash you have on hand - we all have constraints. (Hence my ugly website built by hand myself because I started with no capital - rebuild coming soon - this time hired out:). It wasn't worth 120 hours of my time to build it - don't laugh - but I had constraints at the time. So I understand constraints all too well.)

So basically in a long-winded way I'm saying that it's really hard to replicate what a good school is doing for a similar price. Even if you can replicate it you have to factor in the cost of your time and calculate whether or not that time would better be spent earning money elsewhere or otherwise doing what you want to do given your preferences and budget constraints.

Accordingly, unless you want to do this long term (doubtful given your 6-8 hr/day requirement) the answer is I don't think you can find what you are looking for very easily. Unless you want multiple teachers. And the probability of finding all good ones is very low, as in 1/10 of 1% if you were to select three randomly (.1*.1*.1). (if only 1 in 10 is qualified as I profer)

I would recommend TLI over BLI. (What the heck I'll just say it: BLI is the school that our 1 month student matched their 6 month student.)

Their prices seem reasonable.

(You notice I am not encouraging you to come to our school in Beijing. I don't think you would fit with us.)

Whew I wrote a lot. I'm probably get a break this off into a new thread since this is a post I wanted to do over a year ago about choosing a teacher on one's own or not. So let's not get too many replies for now to this post but give the original OP a reply.

[Chinese Learner]

Thanks for your reply.

I think I understand what you are saying...I think!

I have to admit that apart from your school, there doesn't seem to be a clear notion in the other schools of teaching Mandarin effectively and quickly. I'm still looking into this and will probably investigate further when I get to Beijing. As a matter of interest have you had any feedback from your other students as to how effective your own course is, as compared to others (apart from the girl who went to BLI - is she still there btw?) Because I do have to admit that it is like a minefield out there when you start to investigate schools.

Thanks!

[myann23]

I agree with self-taught. You're going to have to pony up if you want a high quality teacher. That being said, ultimately how you progress with Mandarin is up to you - no matter how good or bad your teacher is. I went to TLI in Wangfujing for two and a half months last summer and their teachers were pretty good. I've heard good reviews about BLI as well but they are really expensive.

If you want quality assurance, just work a few extra months to save extra cash and go to a place like TLI. Also, what are your goals? 6-8 hours a day in the classroom is hardcore. I did 3 hours a day with TLI and that was tiring in itself. How long are you going to stay in China/Beijing? If I would you, it'd make your classroom time around 3 hours and day, but extend your time in China from the money saved from doing 3 hour days instead of 6-8.

Mike

[Chinese Learner]

Thanks. Yes, I understand what the both of you are saying about paying a decent fee if I want a ood teacher. I just needed a way to learn basic conversational Mandarin as quickly as possible in 1 to 2 months as I wanted to look for work afterwards. I don't really have the time to spend more than 2 months studying...

[roddy]

Then go for one of the recommended schools. If you've only got one or two months you can't really afford to lose a week when you realize that teacher 1 isn't working out, another week finding teacher 2 after teacher 3 decides to quit, etc. If that makes it too expensive, then do six weeks paid study instead of two months, and use the two weeks to take a trip and put what you've learned into practice outside of a classroom context. Or cut down hours per day - 6-8 teacher hours per day sounds like more than is useful to me, you're going to be absorbing so much you aren't going to have time to consolidate and absorb outside of class.

[Jamoldo]

I've heard great things about both TLI and BLI (Boomerang, I'm assuming). Myann, does TLI specialize? I know that BLI has classes (3 to 1 ratio I believe) and then 1on1 in addition to this as a part of its standard curriculum, and that BLI tailors its curriculum to your needs (mine would be business and economics) so I wouldn't waste time learning about some kind of Chinese tea or something like that... Of course I don't have the money for it now but in a few years, its something I might consider.

That being said, I think one can go a very long way by asking around, Mr. Toga specifically. Though he operates out of Dalian, he may be able to put you in touch with cheap teachers who are pretty good (ie. graduate students looking to make some money before going on to teach at TLI and other schools). I know plenty of friends who have had good experiences and have paid as little as 20 Yuan an hour. Whether or not you can find someone who would do this with you daily for 2 hours versus 1-3 times a week for an hour, like they did, is another question, though you may be in luck during the summer as people are on vacation.

Then you can just use what you've learned in class outside. Ie. live in a place like Dalian in a Chinese area and you'll see improvement in a week, whereas in Beijing (as much as I love it), you'll just be able to run off to Dongzhimen/Guomao or some other expat filled area and escape.

[johnmck]

I'd recommend cutting down the hours you do per day. Last year I had private lessons, one 2-hour lesson per week. The last half hour of the lesson was pretty much wasted as my brain had reached its limit. (Now I know why most part-time language lessons are 1.5 hours long)

I have not studied a foreign language full-time but I would not consider doing more than 3 hours a day. Then if you can face more study you can pass your time revising the lesson and vocab. This way the money you spend on lessons will be more effectively spent.

[myann23]

Jamil,

TLI can specialize, but I'm not sure if it's their forte. That being said, if you want to specialize with any school you'll probably have to put in some effort in taking charge of your own study plan and how you want them to implement it. BLI sounds really intriguing as I've heard stories of a few people improving quite rapidly, but what is the extra you get for the added price?

Mike

[Jamoldo]

I dont think BLI is too much more expensive than TLI. What you get extra, I think is that all the of teachers are going to be very very good, as it was founded by an ex-IUP teacher and pretty much caters to expats/diplomats, so you won't have to take charge with your curriculum, as they'll have something very suitable already prepared for you. Or this is what I have heard. That and flexibility. But since I haven't done it and this is only heresay, I can't definitively comment.

[yingxiong]

I generally agree with all of the sentiments on the board. Full disclosure, I run a school in Wudaokou that has been in business for the past 3 years: http://www.1on1mandarin.com. When we first came to town a few years ago, we were the only game in town doing focused, customized 1on1 Mandarin lessons. Most of our teachers were experienced teachers graduating from BLCU or Chinese Literature majors who we trained intensively to be able to transfer their thorough understanding of Chinese language to western learners. Now there are a lot of players in town at varying price points and varying methodologies. I generally believe you get what you pay for. Some schools are factories where teachers teach 7+ hrs per day and therefore have little time to prepare individualized lesson plans for each student. Our school really tries to focus on meeting the specific goals of each individual student who comes in the door. We track on a monthly basis customer satisfaction with how we're doing relative to meeting student goals and needs and prepare specific study plans for each student based on their strengths, weaknesses, goals, and learning styles. We keep our teachers' schedules reasonable, so they have time to focus on the needs of each student. We are relentless about making sure our students have proper pronunciation and have significant time in communicative activities that put them in realistic speaking situations. However, as a result of this focus, our 1on1 prices are a bit higher than the competition next door. But like I said, you get what you pay for. Our group classes are much more affordable, but if you want 1on1, you'll have to pay a bit more. Still, it's the way to learn if you want to build the right foundation and learn the most efficiently. We do consider places like TLI in our competitive set, but we're in Wudaokou and they are in Chaoyang.