Looking at getting a new phone-pda combo, any suggestions on the following?

[roddy]

Yeah, I don't think I'd like that screen size, and I can't help but think you're going to have trouble with applications that haven't been designed for it . .

[cdn_in_bj]

Battery life I can't comment on, but the manufacturer (MSI) figure of 90 minute on a set of two AA batteries isn't great.

That's surprisingly poor - the regular wireless (non-Bluetooth) keyboards last a lot longer than that! And Bluetooth isn't that big of a power hog... Oh well, time to invest in a set of NiMH batteries and charger, if you haven't already done so.

By the way, how does it compare to a typical laptop keyboard, in terms of size and typing action?

I have a Palm TX which has a 320x480 screen. The Samsung thing only has 240 x 400 according to the URL you gave. Is that right? The HTC touch diamond has 480 x 640.

Yeah, that's what the site says about the Samsung. I'm actually leaning heavily towards the Touch Diamond right now, but I'm thinking I should wait a month for the prices to come down a bit.

[roddy]

I'm thinking I should wait a month for the prices to come down a bit.

Yeah, probablybuy it now a wise move, plus there's alwaysbuy it nowthe chance of some quality issue that nobodybuy it now, be your best friend!has spotted yet.

Re: keyboard: In terms of size it actually isn't that far off my current laptop, but that itself is a 12-inch dell. However it feels a lot more cramped and tiring to use. Not sure yet if this is just because it's ergonomically poorer or if I'm just not used to it. Going to spend some time with it today though . . .

[cdn_in_bj]

...buy it now...buy it now...buy it now, be your best friend!...

Your subliminal tricks won't work on me... Then again, my birthday is coming up soon...

I also looked into the Touch Pro, and it seems that the benefits of the Pro over the Diamond, besides the added keyboard, are that it has quad-band GSM support (vs. tri-band for the Diamond) and a larger battery (1350mAh vs. 900mAh). But the downside is that it's thicker and won't be available until later this summer.

There's also the really cool Sony Xperia X1:

http://www.mobileburn.com/news.jsp?Id=4124

The hardware specs are top-notch, and if they can get that UI running smoothly this will be the *best phone ever*, but to be honest I don't have much faith in Sony. The software is still very beta and their past flagship smartphones (P900/P910/P990) were disappointments. However, I'd be very glad to be proven wrong.

Re: Keyboard, it seems to me that a bluetooth keyboard is the way to go. The tiny built-in phone keyboards are just too small for any serious typing. I can go pretty fast with T9 now.

[roddy]

Ok, I just translated a 2,500 character document on my smartphone + bluetooth keyboard combo. Some thoughts.

First off, and unsurprisingly, it's more hassle than a laptop or desktop. The quality of the keyboard didn't really bother me, although there's no doubt I was making more typos (and will no doubt discover a ton more when I proofread). But the lack of taken-for-granted features like spell checks and autocorrect on Word Mobile made more of a difference than I'd expected. However, some nice things - for example being able to do Pleco look-ups entirely from the keyboard (select, copy, windows, hit P for Pleco, paste in, Win+W to bring Word back up) - made life a bit easier and if I can set up say a hot-key combination to bring up Opera with Google, etc . . .

The biggest obstacle is, again unsurprisingly, the tiny screen, compared with the fact that keyboard typing means you need to be further away. You're constantly paging up and down, and I've got a crick in my neck. I also find it hard to believe that working like this isn't going to result in more errors. I think the way to go for translation work at least is to get a print out of the document and work from that, typing as you go. Assuming you can find a printing place that's no hassle - at least for those of us who also got a new TF card, adaptor, and SD card reader in their Amazon.cn bundle yesterday. One of those document stands would be nice also, but at this rate my mobile office will require Sherpas.

Another possibility would be to use the hot keys to switch between another text-handler - say an email - with the Chinese original in, and Word for your English translation, rather than typing 'over' the Chinese as I just did.

Another annoyance is that as far as I can see, there are still some things you need to use the phone's screen for - any options on the bottom toolbar, for instance, and bringing up the 'right click' tap-and-hold menu. Still, I can do more with the keyboard than I expected to, including 'real computer' shortcuts like CTRL+C, X, V, bringing up the Start menu, etc.

Battery life - I put a new set in this morning and the battery meter read as 75% full. This was annoying, but after roughly an hour and a quarter of work they still read 75% full. So either I've got infinite batteries (look out, world!) or the battery meter is broken. Time will tell. The phone is showing 65%, after that + twenty minute of audio playing. That's perhaps more worrying. If you didn't get a spare battery delivered yesterday

This combo also attracts geeks - I've had a succession of guys coming up to tell me how 帅 my new toy is and ask where and for how much I got it. Surprisingly no female interest yet

Attaching a really quite terrible quality photo of the keyboard sitting on top of my D420.

[cdn_in_bj]

Another annoyance is that as far as I can see, there are still some things you need to use the phone's screen for - any options on the bottom toolbar, for instance, and bringing up the 'right click' tap-and-hold menu. Still, I can do more with the keyboard than I expected to, including 'real computer' shortcuts like CTRL+C, X, V, bringing up the Start menu, etc.

Maybe what you need is a bluetooth mouse to go with your keyboard:

http://www.pocketgoddess.com/articles/2006/07/think_outside_s.html

This combo also attracts geeks - I've had a succession of guys coming up to tell me how 帅 my new toy is and ask where and for how much I got it. Surprisingly no female interest yet

Great, I can't wait...

[roddy]

Was actually looking at that yesterday - at USD80 and having to carry and power another device, I think I'll give it a miss - to be honest having to reach out and poke the screen is probably as disruptive as reaching out and moving a mouse anyway. The iGo site also says their keyboards are discontinued, so . . .

[cdn_in_bj]

By the way, I found a place in Beijing (near BeiDa) that has it for Y4880

It looks like the price on the Touch Diamond has already dropped by Y200, to Y4680. I'm going to go try it out this weekend.

[roddy]

Did you buy it, did you, did you huh, did you buy it?

I'm very happy with my Touch, but the extra features are tempting me towards an upgrade - hard to justify after only having the Touch for less than six months though. The lack of a memory card slot I think I'd find annoying, so I then look at the upcoming Raphael but that has the keyboard and hence extra size.

Loving, by the way, my Bluetooth keyboard + smartphone combination. Had it out with me today, got an email with a couple of documents to translate, printed them out at a roadside print shop, sat in a cafe, read them, did look-ups on the phone, unfolded my keyboard and tapped out the translations, then emailed them to my laptop. Fantastic set-up, and I find that the inability to have dozen browser windows, email, and the latest episode of Reno 911 all open at the same time mean I actually work a lot more efficiently. Have done over 5,000 words of typing and the batteries are showing 50% - I think the meter only does 25%s.

[gato]

I just bought a Palm Centro for RMB2450 in Shanghai.

See here for a review: http://reviews.cnet.com/smartphones/palm-centro-glacier-white/4505-6452_7-32862854.html

Was considering the Windows Mobile phones, as well, but ultimately the stability and GUI issues led me to choose the Centro instead. I've read that the Centro is the most stable Palm phone ever and the size closest to a regular phone.

I was tempted to go for the iPhone, as well, for its stability and design, but since an iPhone version of PlecoDict is at least another year away, the iPhone will have to wait.

[cdn_in_bj]

Did you buy it, did you, did you huh, did you buy it?

Haha I actually didn't make it out of the house today - I had some friends drop by. Maybe tomorrow.

You bring up a good point regarding lack of memory card slot that I hadn't thought of before - it makes it less convenient to transfer files while "on the road" (such as printing files out like you did). Though I suppose this can be mitigated somewhat if the phone can act as a mass storage device when connected via USB. Of course that means I'll have to carry a USB cable. Well you can't have it all and it gives me a reason to upgrade to another phone in a year. Life would get quite boring if we all had the perfect toys, right?

Good to hear that the bluetooth keyboard is working out so well for you. I'll probably get one as well when I get my new phone.

[roddy]

There's a nice long review up here . Two plus points for the Diamond - it can act as a USB drive, so you can transfer files to / from any computer without having to worry about ActiveSync, etc. And the USB cable itself is also used to charge the device - the plug bit of the charger has a USB socket. That for my money is pretty handy, especially as HTC use standard USB cables. Now straying towards the Diamond rather than the Raphael.

[cdn_in_bj]

There's a nice long review up here . Two plus points for the Diamond - it can act as a USB drive, so you can transfer files to / from any computer without having to worry about ActiveSync, etc. And the USB cable itself is also used to charge the device - the plug bit of the charger has a USB socket. That for my money is pretty handy, especially as HTC use standard USB cables.

Wow, that's a great review. As in, being very informative. Nice to see that the device comes with CE-STAR Suite II and Cyberon Talking Dictionary - that answers a question I had about Chinese input. The USB connectivity/charging is definitely a plus, although it appears they are using a non-standard USB connector? If so, that's a slight inconvenience, but one which I'm willing to live with.

My main concern, as confirmed by the review, is the smallish battery. But I guess it's something I'll have to live with. Like I said, I'm overdue for a new phone and I'm really excited about the Touch Diamond as it looks like I can finally retire my PDA.

Now straying towards the Diamond rather than the Raphael.

The Raphael is the Touch Pro? If so, what's swayed you towards the Diamond?

[roddy]

The main issue was the lack of a memory card slot - I like to be able to transfer stuff to any computer if necessary. Currently I can do that with a MicroSD>SD adapter and an SD card reader, which is a little hassle but not that bad and you know it's going to work on anything with a USB port. If the Diamond had no memory card slot and needed to install drivers / Activesync to transfer files it would have been a hassle and you'd need to be emailing stuff to get it on to any computer other than your own. But if it acts as a USB drive all you need is the USB cable (and it is a standard cable, USB to Mini-USB, as used on lots of cameras, mp3 players, external hard drives), which isn't so bad. AND as that cable is also used to charge the device from the plug, there's a fair chance I'll have it in my bag anyway.

That dual use for the USB cable also means I can remove one more piece of wire from my life, which is good. For a while I used to think I wasn't so much a person as a means of transport for an ecosystem of twisted copper.

Anyway, if it came without a memory card slot or USB functionality, I would have been inclined to go for the Touch Pro / Raphael, but now I'm not. I don't need the keyboard and it's 5mm or so thicker.

Then again the battery (surely there'll be a higher capacity batter available though?) and extra features of the Pro (TV Out, and other stuff I forget) might change my mind again. To be honest I'm happy enough with what I've got that I could happily um and ah until the next batch come out . . .

[cdn_in_bj]

The main issue was the lack of a memory card slot - I like to be able to transfer stuff to any computer if necessary.

I was concerned at first about the lack of a memory card slot, but then I realized how big 4GB really is. The only way you'd fill that up is if you keep a lot of music/movies. I've been getting by just fine with only a 512MB CF card in my PDA.

Ok, from one of the review photos the connector appeared to be non-standard, but the review also states that "you can just use any Mini-USB cable to charge the device and there's less stuff to carry". Good stuff.

AND as that cable is also used to charge the device from the plug, there's a fair chance I'll have it in my bag anyway.

This is a big plus for me too... And I still wonder why Nokia doesn't implement USB charging on their phones...

Anyway, if it came without a memory card slot or USB functionality, I would have been inclined to go for the Touch Pro / Raphael, but now I'm not. I don't need the keyboard and it's 5mm or so thicker.

I find slide-out keyboards in general to be inelegant, though some people might find them useful. I forgot to mention that I like how they've included several different software keyboards for input - including numeric pad w/ T9 and predictive text! Those of us that are proficient with T9 input should find this a better option than the tiny full-QWERTY keyboard.

Then again the battery (surely there'll be a higher capacity batter available though?)

I read in a different article that a higher capacity battery will be available, along with a different back plate to accomodate the extra thickness.

and extra features of the Pro (TV Out, and other stuff I forget) might change my mind again.

The Touch Diamond is available RIGHT NOW, whereas the Pro won't be coming out until later this summer.

To be honest I'm happy enough with what I've got that I could happily um and ah until the next batch come out . . .

I think with this phone what it comes down to is the hardware (VGA screen, GPS, sleek packaging) and TouchFlow 3D interface. Interestingly enough, TouchFlow 3D can be disabled in the settings, thus reverting the phone to the standard Windows Mobile 6.1 UI. I haven't been keeping up with the changes in the recent versions of Windows Mobile, but from what I've seen, in some respects it doesn't seem that much different from what I'm used to (Windows Mobile 2003). That's good ol' Microsoft for you. Oh well, like I've stated previously, the hardware is appealing, and even though the OS is technically inferior to, say, Apple Safari Touch, there are a lot of useful 3rd-party applications for Windows Mobile that I can see myself using.

[gato]

I haven't been keeping up with the changes in the recent versions of Windows Mobile, but from what I've seen, in some respects it doesn't seem that much different from what I'm used to (Windows Mobile 2003). That's good ol' Microsoft for you. Oh well, like I've stated previously, the hardware is appealing, and even though the OS is technically inferior to, say, Apple Safari Touch, there are a lot of useful 3rd-party applications for Windows Mobile that I can see myself using.

Windows Mobile is still inferior in some ways to Palm OS, as well, not just in the GUI but also performance. On the same hardware, Windows Mobile is slower than Palm because its higher overhead. Palm has sold almost 2 million Centro's, so Palm's not quite dead yet.

[cdn_in_bj]

Windows Mobile is still inferior in some ways to Palm OS, as well, not just in the GUI but also performance. On the same hardware, Windows Mobile is slower than Palm because its higher overhead. Palm has sold almost 2 million Centro's, so Palm's not quite dead yet.

Comparisons about the GUI are rather subjective, but Palm OS (as it currently exists in practical use, ie- Garnet) is pretty close to dead. Palm software sales are dead, even with the success of the Centro. I feel that the fate of Palm OS will be sealed within a year. The release of iPhone 3G and Android this year does not bold well for Palm OS. On the otherhand, they might actually help Palm by raising awareness amongst average consumers in buying/installing 3rd-party applications on smartphones.

Anyways, the uncertainty surrounding the future of Palm OS, combined with the lack of multitasking in the Treo devices (yes, the "higher overhead" in Windows Mobile) and inferior integration/synchronization with Windows, are all big negatives for me.

[roddy]

Just checked prices in Dalian - first quote was RMB4,750 for HK English, RMB5.350 for Taiwanese traditional. I appear to have accidentally said I'll go tomorrow and look at it . . .

Edit: Any idea what 3码 would mean in 港行全新3码给你差不多会在4700下批.?

Edit Edit: Think I sussed it. 三码合一 means the IMEI stored in memory, on the body of the phone, and on the box are all identical - means that although the phone might be smuggled it's not a stolen phone in a real box, been made up of bits and pieces of faulty devices, etc.

[cdn_in_bj]

Just checked prices in Dalian - first quote was RMB4,750 for HK English, RMB5.350 for Taiwanese traditional. I appear to have accidentally said I'll go tomorrow and look at it . . .

Good stuff. Why so much more for the Taiwanese model? Or does the HK English version not come with CE-STAR?

[roddy]

I'd guess people just want a Chinese version rather than an English one. Given that any seller of grey import phones (actually given that it's actually illegal in China, they're just smuggled phones, lets be blunt about it) will install CE-STAR or whatever for free I doubt that's the reason for the RMB 600 difference.