The big bad wolf

[outcast]

The impression that I get from a lot of people on this forum (especially foreigners) is that westernization is the Big Bad Wolf. Everyone keeps thinking along the lines of "ancient culture must be preserved" and "outside influence is bad". This is nonsense. Cultures change, either by themselves or by taking outside ideas. This is a GOOD THING, since it keeps the culture fresh and flexible. When a culture stops changing, it inevitably becomes weaker and weaker, until one day it collapses, the last 700 years of chinese history is perhaps the greatest example of this.

[Hero Doug]

I've been living here for a few years now and I've spent time with and spoken to many, many locals. I've only met a few who weren't proud of China (I think most people have the hometown pride thing so this is natural), but I haven't encountered much of what you're posting about.

While I agree that change is good, I haven't really meet anyone who has a desire to kill the big bad wolf, or, preserve the ancient culture.

From what I've experienced most people just seem to live their lives and try to enjoy themselves.

I could possibly see this attitude in the older generation (with whom I have very little experience with) but I really can't say.

Anyways, my 2 cents.

[BrandeX]

Like he said, he is referring to foreigner opinions, not locals. I think it's the opinion of much of the western world that anyone going to China, even for a week vacation, that they will/should be walking into a place reminiscent of 2000 years ago, and it's not.

[gato]

He said "people on this forum," actually.

[Madot]

I think there is a bit of the ‘big bad wolf’ attitude out there and some of it is probably due to that silly attitude that tradition is everything. Culture shouldn’t change, etc. But, and it’s a big ‘but’, in China nowadays it seems as though they are copying everything that is Western, without regard to quality, appropriateness, or any other criterion of judgment. If it’s Western, if it’s popular in the West, it must be good. This does indeed produce some alarming results. No, not everything Western is bad, but not everything Western is good either.

Mado

[simonlaing]

I think many westerners forget that a lot of cultural heritege was lost in the 60s and 70s.

They expect it to still be mecca or Jerusalem with ancient temples.

Espicially just after China joined the WTO in 2001, 2002 there was a feeling of some Chinese in my Jiangsu delta, that if it was western it must be good.

I think things are tapered off somewhat. Sometimes it seems the chinese haven't embrace the quality control style of the Japanese yet. Some factory owners and traders of simple goods still feel medicore quantity over quality is best. Hopefully food and toy recalls will start to change this slowly.

Do you think this trend could take hold?

[outcast]

traditional chinese "values" and "traditions" at work:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=506153&in_page_id=1811

No wonder why so many people don't like China........

[gato]

traditional chinese "values" and "traditions" at work:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1811

No wonder why so many people don't like China........

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=506153&in_page_id=1811

Animals torn to pieces by lions in front of baying crowds: the spectator sport China DOESN'T want you to see

By DANNY PENMAN - More by this author » Last updated at 20:57pm on 5th January 2008

A man hoisted up the goat and nonchalantly threw it over a wall into a pit full of hungry lions. The poor goat tried to run for its life, but it didn't stand a chance. The lions quickly surrounded it and started tearing at its flesh.

"Oohs" and "aahs" filled the air as the children watched the goat being ripped limb from limb. Some started to clap silently with a look of wonder in their eyes.

The scenes witnessed at Badaltearing Safari Park in China are rapidly becoming a normal day out for many Chinese families.

Baying crowds now gather in zoos across the country to watch animals being torn to pieces by lions and tigers.

Just an hour's drive from the main Olympic attractions in Beijing, Badaling is in many ways a typical Chinese zoo.

Does this sound like a typical day out to the zoo for a Chinese family?

[heifeng]

hey! animals need to eat too. Besides, this way the kids in the above article can learn that lamb chops don't grow on trees in plastic wrap:mrgreen: no different than the discovery channel stuff people.

I think things are tapered off somewhat. Sometimes it seems the chinese haven't embrace the quality control style of the Japanese yet. Some factory owners and traders of simple goods still feel medicore quantity over quality is best. Hopefully food and toy recalls will start to change this slowly.

Those toys recalls...hmm..some quality assurance on the receiving end would be good too, but I guess the toy companies as well as consumers are happy as long as they get cheap products. I think we are ALL just greedy, hungry little wolves so lets just see who gets devoured in the long run!

[Hero Doug]

I think it's the opinion of much of the western world that anyone going to China, even for a week vacation, that they will/should be walking into a place reminiscent of 2000 years ago, and it's not.

I think many westerners forget that a lot of cultural heritege was lost in the 60s and 70s.

I kind of fell into that trap (so to speak). While I didn't expect China to be like it was 2000 years ago, I was definately hoping to see more of it's cultural heritage.

[outcast]

Does this sound like a typical day out to the zoo for a Chinese family?

I will be fair, there are many university students that I know of who really are ashamed of things like this, and ashamed of their culture.

[fireball9261]

I prefer China to progress and transform into a modern world like Japan did during late 19th century but without the negative effects of extreme nationalism. They kept many of their traditions while moving forward. Their children were taught to many of their old traditions in schools to this day. I feel sad that mainland China does not do that. Taiwan was doing some of that when I was growing up, but I am not sure whether they are still doing it. However, I feel that even Taiwan did not do enough of keeping our traditional arts and cultures whe I was growing up. It would be great to make Taiji Chuan as a standard PE class to all Chinese students.

Btw, the zoo incident is regretable, but it was not just a Chinese tradition. It was also a Western tradition from what I have read about how Europeans and Americans loved to see public tortures and executions as well in the old times. Nowadays, many Westerners love blood sports and some of the sports that borderlining blood sports, like boxing matches, wrestlings, footballs, or different kungfu competitions (and I am not saying the formal ones), etc. Cruelty to animals and cruelty to humans are "五十步笑百步" (the ones who ran from the battle fields only 50 steps laughing at the ones who ran for 100 steps!"

[Woodpecker]

Nowadays, many Westerners love blood sports and some of the sports that borderlining blood sports, like boxing matches, wrestlings, footballs

Sorry, but how does Football border blood sports? Or wrestling and boxing for that matter? I don't see any blood being spilled!

[fireball9261]

Sorry, but how does Football border blood sports? Or wrestling and boxing for that matter? I don't see any blood being spilled!

That's your interpretation. I saw plenty of blood and lives spilled with people cheering them on.

[Hero Doug]

I can see boxing the point being made with boxing or UFC, but many other sports are just rough and the main intention isn't to hurt other's.

[muyongshi]

Nowadays, many Westerners love blood sports and some of the sports that borderlining blood sports, like boxing matches, wrestlings, footballs

Well if you are talking about Rugby (英式橄榄球) then yes maybe bloody. But american football is far from violent. Boxing yes, I can see your point, it is a brutal and bone crushing sport. Wrestling though?? Maybe if you are talking WWF which is NOT real wrestling. Real wrestling is what happens in high school and the olympics and they are far from violent. Sometimes someone will get a bloody nose but not much more. It is a test of endurance not how much I can beat on another. So just clarify what sports you are talking about please...

[outcast]

They kept many of their traditions while moving forward. Their children were taught to many of their old traditions in schools to this day

If you are walking forward while looking backward, you will trip over something and fall down, and this is exactly what is happening in Japan. The birthrates in Japan are some of the lowest in the world, so much so that their population is dropping by a comparatively fast rate. Why? Traditional attitudes about women in a modern economic environment. In 100 years the Japanese people will be extinct, their backwardness is killing them.

But that whole post is really what I was talking about.

It was also a Western tradition from what I have read about how Europeans and Americans loved to see public tortures and executions as well in the old times.

The difference is that western people don't do that now, western culture EVOLVED. To compare what western people USED to be like x hundreds or thousands of years ago with what chinese (or whatever nationality) people do now further illustrates my point about why blindly following traditions isn't such a good thing.

[Shadowdh]

Holy cow, rugby a bloodsport... sheesh have you even played the game... my god I am getting old and I am only 35... if there is another war the west is screwed big time, things are getting so soft...

Change is not necessarily a good thing... if you forget your past, dont learn from history then you will be doomed to recreate the same mistakes... just cos its in the west does NOT make it a great thing... pc-ism is a good example... IMHO a nation/state should maintain its unique cultural heritage while moving forward as has been suggested already here... that will NOT mean a nation/state will disappear... (melodrama anyone )...

[Woodpecker]

That's your interpretation. I saw plenty of blood and lives spilled with people cheering them on.

When did you see this and where? Rugby players occasionally get grazed, but that's just what happens when 10 people pile on top of you! The teams aren't out there to hurt each other. Soccer? Come on! It's even less severe than Rugby. At least most of the action concerns the players' feet. Deliberately injuring another player in both of these games is serious foul play and isn't tolerated! Where have you seen the crowds encouraging the players to injure each other?

[muyongshi]

Holy cow, rugby a bloodsport... sheesh have you even played the game

Clarification: Bloody as in comparison to American Football. Meaning a few more sprained something or others, bloody noses and some minor cuts and bruises. But definitely not the focus of enjoyment in watching it and very unbloody in comparison to someone being torn apart by lions in Rome.

Soccer? Come on! It's even less severe than Rugby.

Well the game maybe, but definitely not the mobbing afterwards