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Posted

Is it the same origin as the "生" in Cantonese (as in "陳生", Mr Chan) and "さん" in Japanese, as "鈴木さん" ?

Posted

I'm not sure... One theory says it's actually from the English "sir"

Here are some terms off my head

长三(上等妓女)

赖三(女流氓)

瘪三

猪头三

红头阿三(印度人)

小鬼三

老鬼三

But the 三 today is no longer productive. I can't just make up a new word by adding 三 nor can I use it for title purposes. So it's quite like 生 for Mandarin.

It's possible that the terms above have influence from 生 since 三 was originally pronounced as /sae~/ (just 120 years ago) which is quite close to 生 today /sA~/. (~ = nasalization like in French "banque", the nasal vowel got lost for 三 /sae~/ and became /sae/ and 70 years later is now /sE/ and sounds like English "say"). This transformation for 三 is universal in Shanghainese as 舰 /khae~/ --> /khae/ --> /khE/. Losing nasal vowels appears to be very easy, as most of French nasal vowels have been lost too.

In Shanghainese today the mister title is like Mandarin, 先生 (shisan, IPA: /SisA~/). 先 /Sie~/ or /c,ie~/ --> /Sie/ --> /Si/ (exactly like し).

Posted

ala: but why is 长三 = 上等妓女?

How about 短三? = 下等妓女?

Posted

Hmm. Second-class prostitutes were called 幺二.

I've also heard that the origin of the term 长三 referred to the price they were able to get for ANYTHING (making tea costed 三元, talking costed 三元, etc).

So that's possible too... 长三 can also be a homophone with 长衫 in Shanghainese.

Posted

Objection! I don't think wearing 長衫 is a prostitute! :-?:oops::lol::clap

Posted

I am a Shanghainese, so let me tell you some story of the word "上三"

Please notice that it should be "上三" but not "长三". "上" and "长" are same pronounced in Shanghai dialect, which make you mistake them.

In the 1930's, the joyhouses were located on the Fuzhou Rd, which was commonly called the 4th street.

And the first class joyhouses were called "上三堂子" while "幺二堂子" for the 2nd class and "下三堂子" or "咸肉庄" for the 3rd class. The lowest class of joyhouses are called "钉棚"

As a suffix of a title, "三" is mostly used with a bad sense.

Posted

no, I think it's 长三. At least, the Chinese literature I've read always used 长三. But they are pronounced the same (and so is 长衫 haha). 上 would be more intuitive, but...

Yup, 三 suffix is pretty much always negative, as you can tell from the examples.

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