Chinese may replace English in this century

[skylee]

But the fact is that there is no problem for Mandaren speakers to understand written Contonese without learning Contonese.

You wouldn't say so if things are REALLY written in Cantonese.

Contonese people should learn Mandaren in order to communicate with Mandaren speakers

This sounds so self-important, so offensive. Why is it not the other way around? It is so offensive.

I have no problem with what you say about Chinese (not that I agree with them). But unless you do speak Cantonese (oh perhaps you do, or perhaps you speak Contonese), I think it is a good idea that you don't get Cantonese involved.

[muyongshi]

You wouldn't say so if things are REALLY written in Cantonese.

That is true.

I just want to point out that Chinese MAY very well become the leading language in the world. But it won't necessarily be for the reasons you pointed out. Why was greek once the language of the world? Or Latin? Or even Hebrew if you go back far enough....It does not have to do with the "simplicity/complexity" difficulty or anything else. Maybe to a small degree it will. But that is not the main reason.

[tanklao]

TanKlao, you look down up on other peoples languages and you are totally not confident about your own language, what are you trying to prove? That English and any other European Languages is crap and the Chinese language is the best language in the world?

I do NOT mean to despise any language, although some of my improper words may have made that sense. I pologize for that. In fact I respect every language as I am trying to learn a little of many languages. I am a Minnanese, but I have learned Mandaren, English, a little Japanese, a little French, some Latin and some Esperanto.

What I want to say here is that Chinese can better serve as an international language, because of its natural advantages, and will oneday replace English. I strongly believe this will happen in some decades. This is exactly my opion.

This sounds so self-important, so offensive. Why is it not the other way around? It is so offensive.

I have no problem with what you say about Chinese (not that I agree with them). But unless you do speak Cantonese (oh perhaps you do, or perhaps you speak Contonese), I think it is a good idea that you don't get Cantonese involved.

Don't be so angry, buddy. I have made you misunderstood my meaning. The whole sentence I wrote is not that meaning, but was easy to misunderstand. Now I have edited it. It there any problem?

[dalaowai]

I would compare French to Spanish and Mandarin to Cantonese.

I can see how if everyone spoke Chinese, it could save lives. For example, lets say that you're traveling to Indonesia and you're on a tour group consisting of mainly non-English speaking individuals. Let's say a nearby volcano is about to erupt, you sense it while others don't. Wanting to help others, you scream out "volcano!" Unfortunately such a complex word causes mass confusion. You then think, "how could I communicate this in a more direct manner?" I know, "Fire mountain! Fire mountain!" Precious moments wasted, molten lava devastates...

Joking aside, I do think that spoken Mandarin is easier to learn. Unfortunately, I find that too many native speakers can't understand the various accents of foreigners. I remember one time, I invited to friend to my family's for dinner. He spoke fluent Mandarin, but with a thick accent. To his extreme annoyance, I would have to repeat whatever he said a second time so that others understood.

I just started a new job in Canada. My coworkers consist of about 20 people, 4 of which are native English speakers. The rest is a large multi-lingual group including aboriginals, french, indian, iranian, italian, japanese, chinese, etc. Everyone speaks with different accents and it's all good.

As for French having such specific vocabulary, that's an awesome thing. You save a lot of time not having to explain in greater details. In Mandarin, we have specific vocabulary for a lot of things as well. For example, 奶奶 外婆 表姐 表妹 姐夫 妹夫，etc.

[tanklao]

I have to admit that different accents do make problems for communication. I am a Minnanese and I speak Mandaren with a very strong Minnanese accents. It sometimes brings me a bit problem, and sometimes makes jokes. But this do not affect communication.

After all China is almost as large as the whole Europe, and have the largest population. Compared with the language barrier European have suffered, the language hindrance of Chinese dialects is nothing.

[liuzhou]

This has to be a wind up.

[imron]

In this aspect the simplicity of Chinese it is obvious.

It is obvious to you, because you are a native Chinese speaker. The mistake I think you're making, is that you are looking at English from the point of view of a language learner, and comparing it to Chinese from your view as a native speaker. In this case of course English is going to seem more complicated than Chinese, however, for a native English speaker learning Chinese, it will be the other way around. Most of the complications you mention don't really exist for native speakers. For example, F-R-E-S-H is easy to identify with the meaning fresh, because I can sound out the pronunciation, and once I hear the word I know it means fresh. To me (as a native speaker) this is far more obvious than the Chinese equivalent.

It can be explained like this it is a property of fish 鱼 and it is beautiful as the radical 羊 always means. Supposed that you are in the situation of acient time, you can easily guess that it means "fresh" and easily memerize it.

Of course it can be explained like this, and once someone has told you, then it can help when remembering it, but without explanation it is definitely not an obvious thing. This is but one example, there are many more. e.g. why is it 甚 shèn but then 堪 kān, 架 jià and 驾 jià, but then 贺 hè. The list can go on and on and there are several posts on this forum that already discuss many of the peculiarities that people encounter when learning Chinese.

I am a Minnanese

Here's an interesting question then. What effect do you see characters having on your mother-tongue, i.e. Minnanese. Do you think that characters are a help or a hindrance to the survival of your mother tongue? (note, that here I am asking you to make a distinction between Minnanese and Mandarin).

[chenpv]

only if you allow me to be equaly picky and point out that your average "8 years old kid" probably isn't going to know this.

Now you can teach them if they don't know.

By the way I should point out that 鲜 is not a 形声字xingshengzi. Instead it's a 会意字huiyizi. It can be explained like this it is a property of fish 鱼 and it is beautiful as the radical 羊 always means.

Though some other dictionary may hint 鲜 is a 会意字' date=' I still have doubts on that as Shuowen Jiezi clearly defines it:

魚名。出貉國。从魚，羴省聲。相然切

(A fish' date=' from Kingdom He. Radical Part: 魚, Phonetic Part: A simplified 羴(shan1). Read as combining the consonant of xiang and vowel of ran, thus x(i)an.)[/i']

[imron]

Now you can teach them if they don't know.

Well, at least now I've learnt one thing from this thread.

[chenpv]

Well, at least now I've learnt one thing from this thread.

Haha, well then I have to say I am luckier to have learned more - first some really obscure English words from the original post which I now can't recall a single one, and then Liuzhou's pet word 'drivel' which I find it hard to forget.

[mr.stinky]

so in chineasy one would write “幼稚无聊的话," much longer and less efficient than

the english word "drivel," or could simply post the even longer half page of tripe that the

op required.

or if we lived in ancient times we could use the middle english "drevelen", or old english

"dreflian," the original meaning of which was "chinese scholarship."

[tanklao]

....“幼稚无聊的话,".....drivel....

Can you tell me how many native English speakers understand this word? If someone who don't understand it, can he/she make that sense?

I surely tell you that every Chinese speakers can understand this word without learning, even if he/she is illiterate, as long as you read it out.

This is but one example that Chinese words are longer than English. In most case they are shorter. This is a fact. I don't want to waste time arguing about it.

[roddy]

Does this happen with every homework assignment you get, or did you just get particularly excited about this one?

[zozzen]

This is but one example that Chinese words are longer than English. In most case they are shorter. This is a fact. I don't want to waste time arguing about it.

but if it's all about a measure for environment protection, the layout of a book looks important too. J. Spence's classic "The road to modern China" is just one very thick book in English, but there's 4 books in their Chinese counterparts.

so in chineasy one would write “幼稚无聊的话," much longer and less efficient than

the english word "drivel," or could simply post the even longer half page of tripe that the

op required.

you may try a word "孩子話", "胡說", "盲扯", or simply one word "靠" or "扯".

幼稚無聊的話 seems to be translation from a poorly edited dictionary?

[tanklao]

Here's an interesting question then. What effect do you see characters having on your mother-tongue, i.e. Minnanese. Do you think that characters are a help or a hindrance to the survival of your mother tongue? (note, that here I am asking you to make a distinction between Minnanese and Mandarin).

My mother toungue helps me learn Mandaren a lot and Mandaren helps me to farther understand my mother toungue. They are reciprocal.

Mannese is the language widely use in South Fujian and Taiwan. It is considered to be a dialect of Chinese because the main vocabulary derives from acient Chinese and lots of pronuciation keeps in the acient way.

Yeah I admit that Minnanese is facing great Challenge as the spread of Mandaren and as the prohibitation from being used as an official language in both Fujian and Taiwan.

[imron]

Can you tell me how many native English speakers understand this word?

All of them?

I surely tell you that every Chinese speakers can understand this word without learning, even if he/she is illiterate, as long as you read it out.

The thing is, they would had to already know the meanings of the words 幼稚, 无聊, 的, and 话, and, just like a native Chinese speaker will almost certainly know these words, so too will a native English speaker almost certainly know the word drivel.

[tanklao]

Does this happen with every homework assignment you get, or did you just get particularly excited about this one?

Of course, NOT. neither did I feel excited, because almost nobody support my ideas, which in fact made me very upset.

[imron]

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough, I was interested more from a written perspective. For example, if you want to write something using the grammar, vocabulary and pronunciation of Minnanese, do you find it convenient to do so using Chinese characters? And do you think that not having its own writing system is beneficial or detrimental for the language?

[tanklao]

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough, I was interested more from a written perspective. For example, if you want to write something using the grammar, vocabulary and pronunciation of Minnanese, do you find it convenient to do so using Chinese characters? And do you think that not having its own writing system is beneficial or detrimental for the language?

before May 4 1919, Chinese people use 文言文wenyanwen as written Chinese. So the writting system was equal to all dialects of Chinese. In fact very few people use their dialect to write something. If I have to the give an definate answear to your question, I would like to say, yes, it's indeed detrimental for the language.

[zozzen]

before May 4 1919, Chinese people use 文言文wenyanwen as written Chinese. So the writting system was equal to all dialects of Chinese. In fact very few people use their dialect to write something. If I have to the give an definate answear to your question, I would like to say, yes, it's indeed detrimental for the language./quote]

Baihauwen has been used even before 1919. The classic "The Dreams of Red Mansion" is mostly based on Beijing-hua. And the official document of the Taiping Rebellion is also often mixed up with Wenyan, Baihua and Cantonese dialects.