Chinese may replace English in this century

[m_k_e]

tanklao

I think you have a valid point when you say that Chinese has a certain, albeit limited, advantage over English in sciences. As I see it, a Chinese character can function a lot like a symbol. And in science, symbols are very important. Maybe, you should have mentioned the example of chemistry. I.e., I looked up a random element:

氡, dong1

Now, if I'm just a little bit familiar with the subject, I'll immediately know that it is a gas (气) and is pronounced dong1 (冬). The corresponding English abbreviation is Rn. This really conveys very little information in itself. If I expand it to radon, I might know that it is one of the noble gases (-on suffix). However, I believe that already takes a little more advanced knowledge to figure out.

I do believe that Chinese simplifies memorization in the above case. But that's about it. The examples you provided, I think, have nothing to do with the language itself. Rather, it is how the nomenclature was created. It is true that in Western science, nomenclatures always heavily rely on words from Greek and Latin. I guess that's due to historic developments. However, if scientists agreed, they could very well decide to change that. To better illustrate my point, let me give you an example from German chemistry: Kohlenwasserstoff means hydrocarbon. Any first grader will be able to make some sense of this, because Kohle = coal, wasser = water, and stoff = matter. So, the English equivalent could very well become coal water matter (or something similar) if the science community could agree on adopting this. Although It'd probably be easier for everyone, this will not happen.

Regards

m_k_e

[Chen Jiu]

An interesting argument but from my experience, things are oftern harder to express in Chinese and the intended meaning can be very vague. My wife is a native Mandarin speaker and sometimes finds it easier to speak in English to her Chinese friends, as the language is more direct and precise.

[Meng Lelan]

things are oftern harder to express in Chinese and the intended meaning can be very vague

Not in my case when I get really angry about something then I start thinking or speaking in Chinese, and I'm not a native.

[HashiriKata]

when I get really angry about something then I start thinking or speaking in Chinese, and I'm not a native.

Some Chinese people may not be too happy to know the new use you've found for their language

[Meng Lelan]

Some Chinese people may not be too happy to know the new use you've found for their language

I can tell you though that I never ever use foul language or curse in any language. The reason being I come from a very conservative family that would never allow it.

[imron]

Some Chinese people may not be too happy to know the new use you've found for their language

I wonder how they'd feel about the TV show Firefly. Set several hundred years in the future, everyone speaks English, except when they swear - then they speak Chinese

[heifeng]

omg, of course that's because Chinese has the best swear words possible! There needs to be a separate dictionary just for swear words, including all Chinese dialects....ahh, but alas, who would compile such a masterpiece...not a small undertaking...not a small undertaking

[Meng Lelan]

Actually there kind of is, I think it's called Outrageous Chinese written by James Wang.

[stonelee]

:-?Extremes are dangerous...

[heifeng]

Actually there kind of is, I think it's called Outrageous Chinese written by James Wang.

booo, that lil' paperback book, puh-lease..we need volumes!

[Meng Lelan]

Well, heifeng, looks like that should be your next project, and I'm not going to get involved in it.

[tanklao]

An interesting argument but from my experience, things are oftern harder to express in Chinese and the intended meaning can be very vague. My wife is a native Mandarin speaker and sometimes finds it easier to speak in English to her Chinese friends, as the language is more direct and precise.

It's true that the intended meaning can be very vague in Chinese. But this is not because of the language itself. It's a matter of thinking custom. Lots of thing are omissible in Chinese, which cause no problem in most cases but a few exception. So are true in Japonese. 我 in Chinese or 私(watashi) in Japanese are not used as often as "I" in English. I don't think it cause any problem in the communication. We don't need a complete sentence to make full sense in Chinese. We like conciseness. Some English words,say "in", "on" "the"，"a" and even "I", are very redundant.

今年夏天，我去了北京，先去看一个亲戚，并和亲戚到故宫玩了一个下午。在故宫里遇到了一个熟人，还和他聊了一些高中时期的往事。第二天，就去上海，找同学玩了。后来又去了广州，参观了那里的水族馆，还去拜访了大学时期的系主任，然后就回来了。

In the whole passage, “我” was used only once. And it is enough to express the meaning. If translated to English, "I" and "my" should be use many times.

[gougou]

第二天，就去上海，找同学玩了。

One or several schoolmates?

[renzhe]

We don't need a complete sentence to make full sense in Chinese. We like conciseness. Some English words,say "in", "on" "the"，"a" and even "I", are very redundant.

This is completely backwards.

Chinese is one of the least flexible languages when it comes to leaving things out. In general, languages with strong morphology are far more flexible in terms of sentence structure and leaving things out. Languages with weak morphology need to express relationships through position and additional words.

If you look at languages like Russian or Latin, you will see that you often need 5 or 6 characters in Chinese to express one single word in those languages.

[leeyah]

Extremes are dangerous

I agree.

Chinese is one of the least flexible languages when it comes to leaving things out.

If you look at languages like Russian or Latin, you will see that you often need 5 or 6 characters in Chinese to express one single word in those languages.

Exactly.

In my view Chinese will certainly win the position of dominance in this century, but not because of its logicality or conciseness. The causes for changes in the linguistic map of the world have always been economics and migrations. Several languages: English, French, Spanish, Arabic have won dominance in the language race in different parts of the world due to the colonial policies of Britain, France, Spain and Arabs respectively, which process also resulted in the extinction of many smaller native languages. During the long history of humanity linguistic dominance of the conquerors was inevitable. But now we have a different situation.

I can see we here in the forums are all enthusiasts, each has his/her own reason to be fascinated by 'things Chinese' but I can't possibly imagine how the rest of the world, and I mean the West, will cope with the new task of mastering a language so complex that it requires years of devoted study and practice, to the point of adopting it as a lingua franca. IMO this could only happen if the Chinese set out to conquer the world both economically & demographically, and by this I mean either Chinese taking their business out & settling in great numbers worldwide or by a multitude of billingual/Chinese-speaking interracial offspring. Given the increase in the number of cross-cultural marriages with the Chinese lately, if the tendency should persist, than this is not implausible, plus that it's mostly Chinese ladies who "marry out" and their children have the advantage of Chinese for their 母语 as head start. However, until very recently this didn't seem to play a significant role as most overseas Chinese were quite snobbish to the point that they didn't want their children to learn the language, but now it seems that recent Chinese economic success has produced a patriotic consciousness which made them change their minds. Chinese today are well aware of their potential, but they are too smart to rush ahead. So IMO it's rather the demographic factor combined with their inagressive tactics may be the secret behind their success - 无为, easy does it. If this should happen than English will certainly lose its dominant position. Or it may still survive, but in a different shape, lets not underestimate the power of Chinglish

But for the time being, English is still holding on, very firmly. Doesn't every Chinese want to speak good English? Not to mention some minor newly-fledged states at the moment seriously considering the adoption of English as their official language in order to boost their run-down economies and win respect in the eyes of the world. I spent a few days in Montenegro two years ago and I was stunned to hear local grannies whose native tongues belong to Slavic group, now enthusiastically showing off their 'oral English' in the streets of the small town of Tivat, just after a friendly visit of a US Navy ship there. And same as it would be anywhere in China, especially the 'close encounter' with English speaking Afro-Americans was an unforgettable fascination for the locals

Apart from a few small shop-owners, there aren't many Chinese there. And with their dream of integration in an English speaking world of prosperity and the sweeping popularity of English no one is thinking of learning Chinese. The locals there don't realize (yet) that they are actually hosting the silent envoys of the Masters of the 21st century Just my view, anyway.

[Guest realmayo]

Funny thread!

[muyongshi]

will cope with the new task of mastering a language so complex that it requires years of devoted study and practice,

Forgive me for my ignorance but doesn't every language require years of devoted study and practice?

[HashiriKata]

I'm sure that no matter how difficult a foreign language is to master, as long as it gives promise to some kind of prosperity, people will be able to master it and it'll be able to dominate. This is not to say that there aren't people who learn languages out of love.

[Guest realmayo]

Come on, imagine what would need to have to happen: people all over the world would have to start learn to speak two foreign languages -- Chinese and English: they'd have to learn them well enough to speak and and write in both of them for conducting business. who, seriously, is going to put in the time and effort to learn them both? not enough people to turn Chinese into a lingua franca surely? the only people learning Chinese will be a few of the people working for Chinese companies, and a some of the people who want to live in China.

[leeyah]

Forgive me for my ignorance but doesn't every language require years of devoted study and practice

IMO Chinese definitely does, if you're an average Westerner learning Chinese, but it takes far less devotion & practice if you happen to be a Bulgarian learning Russian, or a Portuguese learning French, or a Hungarian learning Finnish. I referred to the West because I believe Chinese doesn't take as much effort from a Vietnamese or a Thai.

Come on, imagine what would need to have to happen: people all over the world would have to start learn to speak two foreign languages -- Chinese and English: they'd have to learn them well

Well, actually many of us in this forum do this already: communicate in two languages non-native to them, English & Chinese.

I'm sure that no matter how difficult a foreign language is to master, as long as it gives promise to some kind of prosperity, people will be able to master it and it'll be able to dominate.This is not to say that there aren't people who learn languages out of love.

To some extent maybe, but don't forget that most people have no talent for learning foreign languages at an adult age. Should Chinese spread globally, who knows, we may even get pidgin Chinese of some sort, as happened to French in the Caribbean. It'd be really funny, imagine a world where Chinglish is spoken by Chinese & Pidgin Chinese is spoken by non-Chinese. And yes, there are people who learn languages out of love. I am one of them.