Working Full-time Office Job (in Chinese office) While Learning Chinese

[myann23]

I received a job offer last week to work at an entertainment/media company's Beijing office. It's office is mostly staffed with Chinese locals with a few expats mixed in. I've been mulling over this opportunity since last week, debating the pros and cons, trying to figure out where I should take my career.

Originally, I came to China with the long term goal of working at a Hollywood company's Beijing office, with the stipulation that I needed to raise my Mandarin to an advanced/proficient level before starting - so since June of last year until December (I'm currently taking a breather in the US) I studied Chinese hardcore in Beijing and Dalian. This offer is pretty much open ended, because the boss told me it would take at least 18 months to probably get to the level desired, so he told me to get back to him whenever I felt good with my Mandarin and they'd work me into the office.

Now after close to 8 months, I have this new job offer at another company, and they are willing to let me get started in the office while I can continue to learn Mandarin outside of work. It's pretty much an all-Chinese speaking environment, but most of the Chinese there probably have good English as well.

Right now, I'm approximately at the intermediate level (whatever that means...). I can generally have decent conversations. I probably have some weak areas in grammar where I need to shore up as well. For now, I'd say it's mostly about vocabulary acquisition and getting better at speaking with precision.

OK, enough of the prologue... I'm wondering how effective it would be for my Chinese learning to starting working in the office with the Chinese environment along with maybe getting a private tutor 6 hours a week now, versus continuing what I did last year in China which was devote all of my time learning Chinese and getting private lessons each day.

Is it possible I might be at a time where the effects of studying full-time (eat, sleep, breathe) Chinese are diminishing and it's better to get immerse in an office environment where I can pickup a lot of Chinese and use it in a natural setting? I'm a little muddle-headed on what to do now. Do you think to really reach an upper-advanced level of Chinese (my long-term goal) I need to devote all my time to full-time studying, or can I get there while having a full-time job in that Chinese office? I've heard that even if you work in a Chinese office environment, it's possible that your Chinese level can stagnate.

This last offer I received is open-ended as well. Right now, I'm thinking about spending another 4-6 months to strengthen my speaking/listening especially, and then possibly start at that office. I could get a lot of opportunity to improve my reading in the office because I'll possibly be reading (or at least attempting to) movie scripts in Chinese a lot - killing two birds with one stone.

Anyway, mid-to-long term I'd still want to work at the company I originally came to China for, but the next 12-18 months I'm thinking it might be better to leverage my time and use this job opportunity to get relevant industry experience while learning Chinese. Has any of you accomplished a high level of Chinese while working a full-time job in China?

Thanks for any advice.

Mike

[roddy]

I'd say go for it, but walk in with the attitude that you are not just there to work - you're there to improve your Chinese also. If that means working a bit more slowly as you are taking your time over figuring out new vocab in something you have to read, or preferring to do tasks where you get to speak Chinese rather than English, so be it. If it doesn't work out you can quit or they can fire you.

[anforever]

I think I will take this opportunity. Living in a different country, learning their culture and life style, it's not just from the book or school. To me, being a full time student, may feel learn a lot, but of the language/grammar ONLY, life circle may not be wide enough to absorb the culture. If you are really thinking of living and working there in the future, I think it may be better learn and experience the daily life in the same time. I can't guarantee you how much you can improve if you take the opportunity, but as you mentioned you've learned the basics and able to generally have decent conversations, which means you are on a good stage that should step up to experience life while learning more. You may figure you are getting a lot more rather than hugging your book to sleep. It's just my experience and opinion, but I do believe it also works for most of the people who is living in a different country and learning the culture. Good Luck!

[gougou]

I think this largely depends on your learning style. Some people can learn a language in a few months just by imitating native speakers around them, while others are lost without the guiding structure of a textbook. If you're the former, there's nothing like getting out there. If you're the latter, you should make sure you have enough time to read those books (especially taking into account that full-time in China often actually means overtime).

[imron]

And just remember to start speaking mostly in Chinese with your colleagues from the very beginning, otherwise it will be difficult to break people's habit of speaking English to you later on.

[peterlkj]

I'm afraid I don't really agree with the other posters here - although I'm in a different city and industry, my situation sounds quite similar to yours. The problem is that although my Chinese is fine for chatting, its not at a professional level, and at the end of the day, if you're in an office you're there to work - not to waste your time and other people's time communicating slowly what they could have got across to you in seconds with their hard won english. Working in a Chinese office has been a valuable learning experience in other ways, but I'd say make sure you're really at the level you can work at before taking a job. Or go partime...

[Xander]

I think the problem is that if you want to wait till your Mandarin is good enough for communicating effectively at work, reading documents etc. you probably have to study for 2 years in China, or even longer. I think that even with a HSK level 6 one is not able to communicate effectively or read business related documents fluently.

But most companies are not willing to let their employee’s spend two years studying Mandarin. I know of one Danish company - they let their staff study Mandarin intensively for half a year and than it’s off to work. The other company is a Japanese one - study for one year and than it’s off to work.

But I think it must be hard to improve your Chinese if you speak and read English at work 10-12 hours every day. I hope for some Chinese colleagues or customers who’s English is worse than my Mandarin if I should start working in China. One the other hand some/many Chinese people are willing to help you with your Mandarin because they appreciate the effort you make speaking Mandarin to them, don’t know if that applies to the working environment as well.

[Jamoldo]

I think everyone here makes fantastic points so I'll throw in my two cents. Getting professional Mandarin abilities and being pretty good generally takes a long time. If you just focus on speaking I think you could just hang around native speakers all the time and struggle through it just fine and your improvement will be rapid. However, reading characters and memorizing is a long slog that has its peaks and valleys. If I could, I would try to get back here ASAP (since you're in the US) and throw yourself into study for another 6-8 months (try and watch lots of tv/movies) and then try to join the Beijing firm, which I think is a fantastic opportunity. By then you'll have picked up a lot more characters and grammar and you might be able to communicate a bit more easily.

Remember that looking up characters takes a long time, even with pleco/wenlin. Good luck brotha.

[DrZero]

I agree with peterlkj.

Also, in my opinion, your co-workers are going to speak to you in English. Better get used to that.

[imron]

Also, in my opinion, your co-workers are going to speak to you in English. Better get used to that.

Again, I think it really depends on 1) what language you start talking to them with and 2) your ability to communicate in Chinese. I speak mostly in Chinese with my co-workers, and have done from day 1.

[Xander]

Imron,

how good was your Chinese when you started working? I guess watching/undestanding tv soaps/films was no problem, what about reading a newspaper? One more question, how good was the English of your co-workers?

[imron]

I guess watching/undestanding tv soaps/films was no problem,

Well, there are always some problems but not so many that I can't understand what is happening. The same with newspapers. I can read them without too much trouble, but still need to look up occasional words. My Chinese co-workers all speak good English - perhaps because of this they're not looking to practice it with anyone, and are happy just to speak Chinese.

[trevelyan]

If the job doesn't work out, just give notice and leave. After about a year you should have a lot of new industry-specific vocabulary you wouldn't learn elsewhere, and you'll be getting paid to pick it up.

Guess it depends what the work involves, but it seems like an easy choice to me on face value.

[DrZero]

Also key is how much they are going to pay you. Money matters.

[simonlaing]

Since no one said it,

I would like to say if you did this you would need to put aside 2 hour each day to study Chinese. To reach a high level you have to use a book and make yourself learn new words, practice and use them.

I agree with another poster that since it already has expats it is likely that the working language is English. Even if it is not the type of chinese you will come in contact with will be daily life simple words and construction.

This can be very tiring. I studied Chinese and taught English part time for 2 years. It wasn't as efficient, there were times I felt a bit worn out and my relaxtion time was very limited because I felt tired all the time.

If you a masochist for languages and stress like me all the more power to you. If you can't take long hours and the second job of studying Chinese I would think hard about it.

Good Luck on your decision,

Simon:)

[myann23]

Thanks for all the replies guys. I agree with one of the posts that said, on paper taking the job seems to be the no-brainer. My biggest worry, as has been mentioned on several replies how tired I'll feel after work to take an intensive 2 hour private lesson of Mandarin. I might have the best intentions to study my ass off, but after 8-10 hours of work I think most people's brains aren't in the mindset to pound Hanzi in their head. Not only to mention that, but I probably wouldn't have any downtime to relax and do other things either.

As of now, I'm leaning towards taking an additional 6-8 more months of study looking to improve my speaking, listening, and reading. After that when I start work, I'll probably specialize my studies more and tie in a lot of work-related stuff to my Mandarin learning. I figure I can still use that job as a platform to improve my Mandarin, and then I hopefully after a year, I'll be good enough to start the job I was originally going to China for.

By the way, I found this interesting blog by someone who attending some of the high profile Chinese learning programs. http://stealthchinese.wordpress.com/ It's has some good advice that I'll definitely incorporate during my 2nd round of Chinese studies in China.

Mike

[Jamoldo]

Mike,

glad to know my opinions are held in high regard

I think the work and study thing might kill you, and if it doesn't it will certainly make you much stronger in many ways. If you go according to your plan, study hard, make Chinese friends (might help to live with a family, as rent a room in a house with kids and everything). You might not have an active adult social life, but in addition to tutoring you will learn so much so quickly, especially with regards to speaking and reading. I know this was the case with me for Italian (a different language and far easier for a westerner but the principle is the same: immersion). I also know I learned quite a bit from tutoring a 9 year old English just by listening to her speak with her father and when she insisted on speaking Chinese to me. She spoke like most kids, clearly, without too much slang, a perfect accent and was patient.

You might want to ask tutors at TLI about the living thing. Although I have no experience with it, I know people who do who rave about it (those who didn't go through agents). I know if I was to go back to study in China for a few months, I would certainly look into taking this route.

If you do work and study at the same time, try not to be too intense about it. Take some time to really learn the characters since most of your energy will be spent at work. You'll learn plenty on the job I'm sure...