Learning Chinese character may enhance math ability & IQ

[Ian_Lee]

Chinese character may enhance your mathematical ability. Read:

http://www.nupr.neu.edu/07-02/chinese.html

and

http://carquinezreview.com/Columns/Articles/mozart.htm

Chinese character learning may even enhance your IQ score:

http://www.sq.4mg.com/IQdifferences.htm

[eion_padraig]

Unfortunately going through the Chinese mainland public education system will severely limit your creative ability.

Wait, sorry, this isn't Dave's ESL Board.

Eion

[sm_sung]

Well, well, this is indeed an interesting development for the character defenders camp. Good work Ian!

[pazu]

Chinese character learning may even enhance your IQ score:

Oh my goodness~

[Taibei]

Chinese character may enhance your mathematical ability. Read:

http://www.nupr.neu.edu/07-02/chinese.html

Here's a fun quote:

The learner needs to mentally represent each stroke of Chinese spatially

For crying out loud, what exactly does the researcher think is going on in alphabetic systems? They only exist in time but not space? This is just ridiculous.

Moreover, this doesn't seem to have anything really to do with Chinese characters. The thesis pertains to the use of different directions in writing, not to Chinese characters, per se.

This sounds like another of the far too many pseudo-studies fed by the many myths of Chinese characters, so well identified and debunked by John DeFrancis.

http://carquinezreview.com/Columns/Articles/mozart.htm

Here's a representative quote of the method of this argument:

it’s just a visceral theory that I’ve never tested.

I would think that speaks for itself but for the fact people here are refering to these unscientific musings as if they really meant something.

Chinese character learning may even enhance your IQ score:

http://www.sq.4mg.com/IQdifferences.htm

Citing works by racists ("Presents new evidence showing conclusively for the first time that lighter skinned blacks have higher IQs than darker skinned blacks. This supports the theory that the proportion of white ancestry is a determinant of the intelligence of African Americans.") does not speak well of your argument, however vague it might be.

[Ian_Lee]

This supports the theory that the proportion of white ancestry is a determinant of the intelligence of African Americans.") does not speak well of your argument, however vague it might be.

But the author also wrote that the East Asians have the highest IQ who do not have any White ancestry.

[sm_sung]

Taibei wrote:

Citing works by racists ("Presents new evidence showing conclusively for the first time that lighter skinned blacks have higher IQs than darker skinned blacks. This supports the theory that the proportion of white ancestry is a determinant of the intelligence of African Americans.") does not speak well of your argument, however vague it might be.

The statement might not be very comforting, but I would think twice before accusing the researcher of being racist. Suppose I said that darker-skinned black people run a greater risk of suffering from sickle-cell anaemia. Would you then call me a racist? (If you don't know what sickle-cell anaemia is it'll do you good to check it out before replying. Hint: It's a disease.)

Think about what you said and remember, scientific discoveries may not always be pleasant, but they are usually based on some kind of evidence.

[ala]

The author is not deserving of a second of attention in academia (and he isn't getting much attention, btw). sm_sung, your attempt of an analogy between IQ and sickle cell anemia, suggests you need to learn more about the principles of science in general. This wasn't a scientific study, it was a shady statistical study full of major jumps of logic, and not worthy of mention in any respectable academic journals. His entire study was conducted based on IQ AVERAGES collected from independent or government organizations during different times for different countries. There was no standardization, no single IQ test. Many countries only had 1 historic IQ test as there "data," some had no IQ tests, but still managed to have "data" (see below). And let's not forget that correlation does not equal causality. And I'm at a loss as to how this is in any way related to Chinese characters.

And it was a very racist study as "they averaged the national IQs of India 81 and Iran 84 to give Afghanistan an IQ of 83. In the case of countries which are racially mixed and for which there is no similar neighbouring country, they assigned IQs to the racial groups on the basis of the known IQs of these groups in neighbouring countries. For instance, they arrived at a national IQ score of 72 for South Africa by weighting the IQs for the four racial groups (whites: 94; blacks: 66; coloureds: 82; Indians: 83) according to the percentages of these populations (whites: 14 per cent; blacks: 75 per cent; coloureds nine percent; Indians: two per cent)." - The New Straits Times, January 4, 2004. So give me a break.

[Ian_Lee]

Here is another scientific but non-racist (no matter how you read) research paper on how Chinese character learning will enhance your mathematical ability from Perth, Australia:

http://www.aare.edu.au/01pap/whi01153.htm

[sm_sung]

Oooops, guess I didn't analyse the study carefully enough!( I had just gotten out of bed when I made that first post!). Thanks for pointing that out ala!

My apologies to you TaiBei. Guess I shouldn't be too quick to speak(or type!) for that matter.

[Ian_Lee]

According to the above research paper, it says the main difference why Chinese learing kids can better handle math is because:

_______________________________________________

What are the differences?

In counting verbally a child quickly learns to count to ten. We have symbols for these and they are used frequently in our environment. However, after ten, language changes present problems. The English speaking child has to acquire new vocabulary that is not easily associated with the first ten words. For example: eleven, twelve, thirteen etc. and: twenty-one, twenty-two etc.

2) In comparison the Chinese speaking child moves on from ten - and this is in translation - to: ten-one, ten-two, ten-three etc. Then: two-ten, two-ten-one, two-ten-two etc.

Thus even before the child is introduced to the written word the concept of the decimal system may be set. With no extra learning effort the Chinese speaking child may now be well advanced in this first developmental stage.

3) As the Chinese child becomes aware of written symbols, the very first numbers: 1, 2, and 3 - are direct representations of what the child sees. In English these is no relationship between the written symbol and what it is representing. This is another association that the Chinese speaking child may have in advance of the English speaking child.

4) Written Chinese is a system of pictographs, each originally representing an object or a concept The written language system is introduced at a much younger age for Chinese speaking children than for English speaking children.. Often at the age of three Hong Kong children are already in kindergarten. Not just for play - in fact not for play - but for the development of language skills. As Chinese is pictorial and not alphabetical - and each word in the language has a different pictorial representation, there is a great deal to learn if the child is to be able to read and write effectively. So, a child begins learning what we refer to as Chinese characters. It is important to note here that it is writing as well as reading that go hand-in-hand with learning the written language - not just reading as in the early stages of a English speaking child’s education.

5) The Chinese child starts learning the characters. Each character has its set manner of being written. As each character is made up of strokes, the stokes are counted as they are written. Thus, the child from this stage has continual practice in counting. In Chinese language this is extremely important for a working understanding of the language. One, it helps in remembering the character and at a later stage it helps to group words as they are grouped by the number of strokes they have - e.g. Chinese dictionaries.

6) As the Chinese child is learning characters, and thus numbers, the decimal number system is reinforced by the format that the numbers are written in and grouped. Apart from the first ten symbols these is nothing new to learn either verbally or in the written form in order to count (at least to a hundred). In our number system there is no relationship between the written and the spoken as we move past ten. Thus, there is no reinforcement for the English speaking child in establishing an understanding of the decimal system and further mathematical concepts.

7) As the Chinese child (still not 6 years of age) progresses through the learning of the written language further mathematical concepts are introduced. A Chinese character may contain one complete representation for a concrete or an abstract idea. Or the character may be a combination of two (or more) other characters in order to get this representation. Thus what is introduced to the Chinese speaking child are the concepts of addition and subtraction and the basis of algebra: a + b = c.

___________________________________________

The researcher is right that we learn Chinese with reading and writing together while English learning kids just start from reading first.

I seriously doubt what Dmoser said that Beijing 3rd Grade kids cannot write an object in Chinese but in English.

More likely, the kid should be able to write it in Chinese (since he/she started to learn writing Chinese since age 3) but unable to write it in English.

[smithsgj]

Ian do HK kids really start to learn reading and writing so young? My son (in Taiwan) is 5.5 and he hasn't learnt any reading and writing beyond what we've taught him -- his nursery don't teach it until 大班, and formal teaching doesn't start until 一年級 when he'll be nearly 7.

[pazu]

Smith, I don't now much about the edu sys in Taiwan, but in Hong Kong most kids started learning to write and read after 3 in the Kindergarten, that's the case for my cousins.

Of course they can't write much, but at least it's in their school curriculum.

My cousin learn to speak Putonghua when he was 6, and he gave a grad speech using Putonghua when he was 6.5...

[ala]

In Shanghai, I started to read/write characters when I was 7, during the second term of first grade. Math wasn't very intense either. We didn't begin algebra until 7th and 8th grades. School on the whole was pretty easy, two hours of homework a day maximum. Afterall, Shanghai has 50-60% college entrance rate. Those who couldn't get in, really had problems. We also had advanced programs for those exceptionally gifted, and special Olympiad courses in high school. But the degree of work they had was not the norm, nor was it expected for the mainstream students. I went to Fudan Univ High School, btw. It was a 重点高中. Courses were diverse, I took a lot of Western literature and science courses.

In kindergarten we didn't do anything except sing songs, sleep, color, and look at picture books. Maybe things have changed, but I'm not that old. Shanghai education system (since the mid-eighties) is notoriously lax though, we are very protected against national competition (at least non-Shanghainese complain so). All my friends ended up in Fudan or Jiaoda; they worked hard, but it wasn't too stressful. A lot of Shanghainese educators are against the East Asian model of education, and I tend to agree with them. Community service and athletics were also important in college admissions, although the univ entrance exam was still the most important, but it was easy and somehow also heavily curved (Shanghainese reverse affirmative action?).

[Ian_Lee]

So no objection that character learning can enhance your math ability?

[Green Pea]

So no objection that character learning can enhance your math ability?

No major objection. I am sure it can, just like learning chess, geometry, French, swimming, needlepointing, or eating your veggies. This is assuming that intelligence can be learned or increased, of course.

[Ian_Lee]

Green Pea:

Per referenced article, the learning of French or other romanized script like English may probably retard your math ability.

[Taibei]

So no objection that character learning can enhance your math ability?

If you mean the notion that using Chinese characters rather than romanization as an orthographic system enhances math ability, sure, I have lots of objections -- just not much time to deal with them all, unfortunately.

But I'm not quite sure why the posters here should have to respond to every bit of unscientific speculation or every report, however obviously flawed.

For a change, how about the pro-character crowd responding to some works by actual experts?

In counting verbally a child quickly learns to count to ten. We have symbols for these and they are used frequently in our environment. However, after ten, language changes present problems. The English speaking child has to acquire new vocabulary that is not easily associated with the first ten words. For example: eleven, twelve, thirteen etc. and: twenty-one, twenty-two etc.

2) In comparison the Chinese speaking child moves on from ten - and this is in translation - to: ten-one, ten-two, ten-three etc. Then: two-ten, two-ten-one, two-ten-two etc.

Thus even before the child is introduced to the written word the concept of the decimal system may be set. With no extra learning effort the Chinese speaking child may now be well advanced in this first developmental stage.

So far this has absolutely nothing to do with Chinese characters.

3) As the Chinese child becomes aware of written symbols, the very first numbers: 1, 2, and 3 - are direct representations of what the child sees. In English these is no relationship between the written symbol and what it is representing. This is another association that the Chinese speaking child may have in advance of the English speaking child.

They're talking about just three numbers out of an infinite range -- and still no evidence is provided, just somebody's hunch that appears rooted in the ideographic myth. What is this supposed to show anyway? "Give Chinese kids a math problem -- and as long as it involves only 1, 2, or 3 and no other numbers, Western children won't stand a chance?"

I wonder if the authors would also write about the advantages of Roman numerals because "the very first numbers: 1, 2, and 3 - are direct representations of what the child sees": I, II, and III.

4) Written Chinese is a system of pictographs, each originally representing an object or a concept The written language system is introduced at a much younger age for Chinese speaking children than for English speaking children.. Often at the age of three Hong Kong children are already in kindergarten. Not just for play - in fact not for play - but for the development of language skills. As Chinese is pictorial and not alphabetical - and each word in the language has a different pictorial representation, there is a great deal to learn if the child is to be able to read and write effectively. So, a child begins learning what we refer to as Chinese characters. It is important to note here that it is writing as well as reading that go hand-in-hand with learning the written language - not just reading as in the early stages of a English speaking child education.

Chinese characters do not represent a pictographic or ideographic writing system. That the authors cite such myths only shows that they don't know what they're talking about and that they're basing their conclusions on false assumptions about how characters work.

The authors note that "there is a great deal to learn if the child is to be able to read and write effectively" -- but appear to be using this to support the notion that greater difficulty and time makes Chinese characters beneficial. Huh?

5) The Chinese child starts learning the characters. Each character has its set manner of being written. As each character is made up of strokes, the stokes are counted as they are written. Thus, the child from this stage has continual practice in counting. In Chinese language this is extremely important for a working understanding of the language. One, it helps in remembering the character and at a later stage it helps to group words as they are grouped by the number of strokes they have - e.g. Chinese dictionaries.

Hmm, so are Taiwanese better in math than mainlanders because traditional characters have more strokes and they have to count up a little higher sometimes?

This is supposed to help?! You know, there might be better ways for children to spend their time in school than counting to 10 or so over and over and over again, year after year.

Also, the statement that "In Chinese language this is extremely important for a working understanding of the language" conflates language with its written form in characters, which shows incorrect thinking.

6) As the Chinese child is learning characters, and thus numbers, the decimal number system is reinforced by the format that the numbers are written in and grouped.

I wasn't aware that the decimal number system needed so much reinforcement. Really, the authors here are just saying anything that comes to their minds. No evidence.

Apart from the first ten symbols these is nothing new to learn either verbally or in the written form in order to count (at least to a hundred). In our number system there is no relationship between the written and the spoken as we move past ten. Thus, there is no reinforcement for the English speaking child in establishing an understanding of the decimal system and further mathematical concepts.

By the same logic, would Chinese children be limited in their ability in higher math because groupings of ten thousand do not correspond to the groupings used in mathematical notation (e.g. 1,000,000 as "one million" vs. "one hundred ten thousands")? (Please note: I'm certainly not arguing that Chinese children would have this limitation, just making a point.)

But anyway, this has to do with the structure of the language, not with Chinese characters.

7) As the Chinese child (still not 6 years of age) progresses through the learning of the written language further mathematical concepts are introduced. A Chinese character may contain one complete representation for a concrete or an abstract idea. Or the character may be a combination of two (or more) other characters in order to get this representation. Thus what is introduced to the Chinese speaking child are the concepts of addition and subtraction and the basis of algebra: a + b = c.

This is absurd. They might as well argue that having two legs makes people naturally inclined to dialectical materialism.

The article as a whole is basically a statement in praise of rote memorization, which is something that educational authorities on both sides of the strait say they want to move away from because of its obvious disadvantages to real learning (as opposed to temporary memorization).

[Green Pea]

Per referenced article, the learning of French or other romanized script like English may probably retard your math ability

I'll be sure to let Descartes, Pascal, and Poisson know.

[ala]

you forgot: Fermat (Fermat's Last Theorem, analytic geometry), Lagrange (The Lagrangian is named after him), Galois (group theory), Fourier (Fourier series! Fourier transform..), Laplace (the Laplace Transform!). And I haven't begun for the English, German, Italian, Russian yet.