Please Help Me Decide Where To Live

[Tritone]

At the end of this summer, I'm going to be moving to China to teach English. Judging by the job listings I have browsed, I will probably be able to find work in pretty much any city. This is a double-edged sword, however, since now I have to decide which city is best suited for me!

I've made a list of criteria which are important to me:

Language. I don't know how much this might be an issue, especially outside Guangdong, but I can't speak or understand Cantonese, and I don't wish to learn it.

Size. I would like to live in a city which is not lacking in bustling activity. Unfortunately, it's somewhat antithetical to my next variable...

Pollution. This is easy. The less pollution, the better.

Public transportation. Driving is out of the question for me. I'm not too keen on busses, but I could adapt. If the city has some sort of metro or "light rail" system, I would be extremely pleased.

History and culture. I have an interest in Chinese culture, history, architecture, etc. I don't need all this stuff to be located within the city itself, but within day-tripping distance, perhaps.

Beauty. Kind of subjective, but who wants to live in an ugly city?

Food. I like to eat it!

Weather. I've just spent 4 years in Boston. I don't want to go to a frozen wasteland!

Cities I'm considering:

Shanghai - Huge city, metro system, 小龙汤包! Heard the air pollution is pretty bad. Still, probably my first choice!

Hangzhou - Supposedly very beautiful. Close to Shanghai. Seems nice!

Chengdu - Sichuanese food and hot pot! Named "4th most livable city" by China Daily.

Xiamen - Civilized (I've been told), clean, but perhaps not as big or exciting the others. Anyone know more?

Anyway, any help would be greatly appreciated! I don't really care about statistics, but if anyone can give me the general "feel" of the cities I mentioned, or other cities that might be good, I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks!

[DrZero]

Certainly the languages you'll hear on the streets of Shanghai, Xiamen and, I believe, Hangzhou, are not variants of Mandarin and will be about as hard to understand as Cantonese. Not sure about Chengdu.

[xiaolin]

hi...

i live in guangzhou for 6months

and so far i know, guangzhou is a quite good place to stay

but as u know, china...hmm must have a good side n bad side

guangzhou also have a metro line, coz i also prefer to take metro

the cantonese foods are nice! i love it

and guangzhou is near hong kong and macau

so i can go there on the weekend if i feel too bored here

even i can't speak cantonese and my mandarin is poor, but i like to stay here

about xiamen, i love the city, it's so pretty n the cleanest city in china that i ever been

but xiamen isn't as big as guangzhou

so i still prefer to live here

coz guangzhou is like a heaven for shopping and eating

hmm about chengdu, i don't think i like to live there

it's smaller than xiamen , the city isn't too crowded and pretty bored

if u like to travelling n see the scenery, u can live there

coz chengdu has many tourists spot, like : jiuzhaigou, emeishan, leshan(big budha), etc

hope it can help u

if u need more info, u can leave me msg

i'll try to do my best to help

[Qiuyue]

Certainly the languages you'll hear on the streets of Shanghai, Xiamen and, I believe, Hangzhou, are not variants of Mandarin and will be about as hard to understand as Cantonese. Not sure about Chengdu.

Don´t be mistaken, you´ll hear a lot of spoken mandarin also on the streets of those cities.

Ever thought of Qingdao? Better air and weather then most places i believe.

[Han-tiger]

Two months ago, I left Beijing, my hometown, and have currently settled down in Beihai City, Guangxi Province. (北海，广西)

Beihai is a beautiful coastal city. Everything here is nice: the climate, the food, and the environment. Moreover, Guilin, Yangshuo and many other beautiful cities are within the reasonable distance to Beihai. So it is very easy to make a tour of those places during holidays. Perhaps Beihai is a place very close to your expectations.

BTW, I used to live in Xiamen City from 1994 to 1998. I don’t know what it looks like these days. But if asked me to make a choice between Xiamen and Beihai, I would prefer Beihai.

[Rincewind]

Going by your list of dislikes - don't go stay in Shanghai or Beijing. You will hate the public transportation in Shanghai. Especially the buses. I'm guessing you want to work somewhere that you can easily walk to work. Given that, go for a middle sized city. You'll be able to walk from the outskirts to the center without requiring public transport or driving.

I'd give you the following shortlist:

Hangzhou - you already have on your own list. It is beautiful. It isn't completely pollution free but it's not bad. Walking is possible if you really wanted to.

Qingdao - Was mentioned by Qiuyue. It's on the sea so the pollution is lower and the air fresher. It has plenty history and culture to keep you interested. However, it is largish, so you might have to shop about to get a house near your work.

Dalian - Again, by the sea so has cleaner air and nice weather. Plenty history nearby and well connected to other cities.

I'd actually suggest that to avoid public transport you go a little smaller than the above. As long as you stick to the east, you will find any city is vibrant and active. The smaller city will allow you to avoid public transport while still being active enough to keep you entertained. Also remember that taxis are very cheap here. I take the taxis everywhere everyday. The condition of buses or others is irrelevant to me.

[msittig]

Like Qiuyue said, you'll hear plenty of Mandarin in the bigger cities. Don't worry about that one.

I'm in Shanghai, but I'm not gonna advertise it because it fails on the History & Culture bit. Also, it fails on a category you didn't mention, the "China" bit. Shanghai is metropolitan enough that it sometimes fails to be China in the way that a second/third-tier, "haven't seen a white face for two weeks" kind of city does. Please note, though, that Shanghai's public transportation is nearly first-rate (subway+bus+taxi, just toooo many people), and that air pollution is actually pretty decent compared to other cities (check archived SEPA data to confirm this).

Only having lived in Shanghai, Beijing and Tianjin, I'm still going to recommend/second some cities:

Hangzhou - Seconding this one; nice parks, close to Shanghai.

Dalian/Qindao - Also seconds; don't know enough about them to differentiate, but they're both northern, oceanside cities with nice-ish weather and interesting local cultures.

Xiamen - I hear nice things about this city. Good weather, not too large.

Chengdu - At least one city in the West, nice hopping-off spot to Xinjiang and Tibet, still big enough to support a variety of lifestyles.

Changsha - This was one of my first choices until I got a good set-up in Shanghai. May be heading there someday down the road. The Hunanese know how to have a good time, spicy food is a plus, and plenty of ancient history in this heartland "Bible-belt" part of China. (I may be biased because my wife Jodi is Hunanese...)

Hope that helps.

[wushijiao]

I agree with msittig in the sense that Shanghai does have good public transport (especially the subway and the taxi system), and although the pollution is bad, it is not as bad as most other cities. Shanghai is also a good place to live.

On the other hand, I'm not sure it would be a great place to learn Putonghua, especially if you are just starting out. 1) Mandarin is not the native regionalect of most people. 2) Socio-linguistically, it might be harder to find a way to speak Mandarin, compared to smaller cities in the heartland.

Looking at your criteria, overall, you might want to look at some of the southwestern provinces and their major cities....maybe Kunming, Chengdu, major cities in Hunan or Guangxi. Those places have good food, good weather (besides the rare snow storm), aren't too overcrowded with foreigners, but might still have some nightlife. They also have mountains and good places to travel to nearby.

The one downside is that their version of Mandarin isn't the one you'll find in the textbooks. But anywhere you go in so-called Mandarin-speaking areas, you'll find locally accented speaking.

[Lu]

I know you said China, but have you considered Taipei? It fits your requirements so well...

Language: Lots of Mandarin, no Cantonese :-)

Size: Definitely a big city, although not huge.

Pollution: Rarely problematic, much cleaner than any big Chinese city.

Public transportation: Excellent MRT system.

History and culture: The culture is here alright, the history not so much, but Taipei does have the Palace Museum, which should partly make up for this.

Beauty: Beaufitul mountains all around. It's called Ilha Formosa for a reason.

Food: Not as good as in China, to be honest, but still good.

Weather: Great most of the time, also sometimes rainy, and hot in the summer (and cold in the winter).

Think about it.

[simonlaing]

Dear Undecided,

I think you should consider Nanjing on your list as it has many of the pluses with few of the minuses. You're looking for in a city.

Language.Going to a sizeable city and a good university will be good enough for this issue. People on the street in northeast have good tones so speak putong hua well in addition. But every big province capital city will have decent language.so it is not a big big deal. Nanjing has a history of Education, the dialect is very close to standard mandarin.

Size. bustling activity. All of china is bustling. Bustling like they have to build the great wall in 2 years bustling. The East coast cities and a couple big internal cities like Chengdu and Chongqing are bustling more than others but everywhere is bustling. If you mean a place with a developed bar district bigger east coast cities will do. Shanghai, BJ as the top in this. Nanjing is medium sized city that feels like a small city. It is a lot like Boston without as much cold weather. You can bike every where on wide bike lanes. BJ is a bit big to do this and SHanghai there quite few roads you have to share the narrow sidewalk with the pedestrians.

Pollution. The less pollution, the better. Even with the changes the government has made I think BJ is a dusty, (sandy and building site dust). It gets windy as well. It does have some nice tourist places and parks though. Shanghai feels smoggy. Though I admit it is better than before, even if the number of cars is larger. Nanjing has pollution but it is mild, has a big mountain full of trees to clean the air and lots of big trees.

Public transportation. Shanghai has a good metro system , but it is usually full. And by full I mean at rush hour they used Japanesque "pushers" to push people into the subway cars. A couple of BJ metros are old and slow with so many people using it.

Nanjing's is New and has a second line planned for opening next year..Hangzhou gets clogged with tourists. It is the Yellowstone Park of China, (after the sichuan valley).

History and culture. Nanjing has lots of history, capital of 6 dynasties I think, close to jiangsu cities. Shanghai is a new city and doesn't have the history other places have.

Hangzhou's historical places have been preserved but there will be lots of tourists viewing it with you .

Beauty. Shanghai is a forest of skyscrapers. Beijing has palaces galore, but is a wide concrete road spider web. Nanjing has tree lined boulevards. A big mountain and Lake smack in the middle of the city and big rivers running around it. The University campuses are still in the middle of nanjing. BJ they were moved to the outer part of the city after 89.

Food.Everywhere you will find good food. Shanghai is a little milder but has western food available. Nanjing is a spicier mix. Beijing is the capital and has good duck.

Weather. I don't want to go to a frozen wasteland! Beijing and Dalian can get very cold . Qingdao you have seabreezes but the water is cold most of the year I think.

Shanghai and Nanjing are fairly mild. Nanjing does get humid summers. This year's winter was freaky and we just go a foot of snow. Other years we didn't get any snow.

If this is key think about going to Yunnan or Guangxi. High altitude warm most of the year. Though they do get mosquitoes in the summer sometimes.

If you can travel to the cities first that would help you as well.

have fun,

Simon:)

Other things certain cities have vibes an personalities. In Shanghai it is Money and materialism. BJ politics and the CCP, Hangzhou Tourism, Shenzhen Trade, Nanjing Univerisity and academic history. Kunming and Guilin would be tourism as well. Dalian is Old industry meets New industry I think . Correct me if I'm wrong other china hands.

[Tritone]

Thanks to everyone for your positive advice! I'll check out the cities you mentioned, and let you know where I end up

[here2learn]

Why not Beijing? I know the pollution is bad, but everything else seems to fit the criteria.

The language is fairly standard, you will ONLY hear putonghua, no other dialects from shop owners, etc, except for the Beijinghua's R thing... but that's not so bad and it doesn't mean you have to learn any new words, you just have to realize that when a Beijinger is speaking you should subtract some R's and they may be slurring a bit. (not everyone talks like that, imagine people in Boston with a heavy Boston accent; a foreigner might have trouble with a few words, but it's not another language)

You can definitely learn a lot about the culture and history here, it's brimming with places to visit and historical pride. It'd be like living in Washington DC to learn about the US, museums & historical things abound. Or you could find a suburb of Beijing and hope for cleaner air but be in bus distance.

Beijing definitely has activity, but unlike Shanghai, it has a wonderful mixture of old & new lifestyles. You can have a bite to eat in a tiny little hutong restaurant with staff that will SURELY not speak a word of english, for really cheap, then walk a few blocks and you're in modern-city-world.

It has all kinds of ethnic restaurants as well as tons of typical chinese food, from Bejing as well as other provinces.

You definitely don't need a car.

It gets pretty cold in winter but you'll only really hate about 2-3 months of it, you can handle that. Not too different from Boston, hotter in summer. (I lived in NJ and I'd describe Beijing as almost the same but a little more extreme on both ends [hot/cold])

Believe me, I KNOW it's polluted, but other than that, I love it here. I've been here 1.5yrs, feel free to ask me anything.

I visited Hangzhou for 2 days, and together with what I've heard, I'd definitely put that on my list, but I was concerned about whether their putonghua would be standard enough, and for other reasons I needed a bigger city.