Giving A Red Packet Monkey envelope to a friend..

[Cadal]

Hi,

First time poster, long time reader - great source or information here. I would like to get to know everyone and join the community if you'll have me.

Thank you all contributors to this community.

I'm an Australian male living in Australia and have been wanting to make friends with a Chinese girl i have known of for 3 months but not had the courage to ask out for a coffee.

Anyway seemed to be all going okay after one coffee, one dinner and even went shopping with her, however I have been having difficulty contacting her lately (and i did not rush).

I tried to give her a packet money envelope today so that it was before the 7th but she rejected it without even opening saying "I don't need it".

I was a bit taken aback.

I read quite a bit about red packets before i even thought of trying them, and everyone seemed to think it would be okay. And it took me ages to find some in Brisbane.

Have i ruined the start of our friendship is there no way to recover?

[imron]

and everyone seemed to think it would be okay

Who is everyone? Although I understand you were trying to make a nice gesture, to me it doesn't seem like the appropriate thing to give to someone that it seems you hardly even know. At the new year, parents will give red-envelopes to children but rarely will friends/peers give them to each other.

[johnd]

Yes, normally married people give them to children, or employers might give them to employees. So the people giving red envelopes are of a higher status to the receiver. Also, the red envelope will mostly not be opened at the time it is received.

I reckon that next time you see her you should just confront the issue strait on. Tell her you thought it was a normal gift for Chinese New Year, just like presents at Christmas, but you did some research and found out it was not right to give her a red envelope. I'm sure she won't be offended by this little mistake.

[Cadal]

Sorry just noticed my subject typo, thats meant to be Money not Monkey, so embarrassing.

Thank you for the quick response as I asked her if i could ring tonight and she said yes.

There were a few people on yahoo answers, another on a Chinese cultural wiki and a few more on websites, in addition to some on another forum. Read a few articles too, i can probably dig them up given time. Looks like you have just confirmed my fears though. I should have joined up earlier!

Recovery would be possible though?

[imron]

So the people giving red envelopes are of a higher status to the receiver.

Although it is also not uncommon for students of say a martial art or some other discipline to give them to their teacher.

I agree with johnd though, it's perfectly recoverable, just be upfront and say you thought it was a normal gift to give at the new year and you were just trying to make a nice gesture.

[Cadal]

Okay I will be phoning in about four (4) hours.

Thank you very much for all your assistance.

[Qiuyue]

She didn´t open it? Did she have a look inside?

If not, tell her that you were just giving her 2 tickets for the movie, one for you and one for her (sh)

[Cadal]

She said i am thinking too much and that I contact her too much recently. I got the feeling she didn't want to talk to me anymore and then confirmed when she said 'i have to go eat ice cream' and hung up without saying another word.

Well that's that - I guess i should be thankful we didn't get to the friendship stage, as i guess she isn't worth being friends with since as she's so good at hurting people. I'd give up on being nice to people as so far its gotten me into more trouble then its worth,but i can't help it. I don't feel confident anymore to even try making Asian friends in where i am - no offense to the Asian community as this is my problem.

Its put me in a right good mood for my birthday tomorrow.

Thanks so much for your assistance, i thought i would provide feedback even though it was not a happy ending as such. I of course don't blame anyone but myself, but perhaps i dodged a silver bullet (or perhaps i'm angry and overreacting). I know I'm very disappointed.

Anyway have a great Chinese New Year all!

[gougou]

perhaps i'm angry and overreacting

Yes, you are. But that's perfectly normal, I've been there before as well (I'm assuming that I'm normal here ).

But don't let her spoil some fantastic friendships you might still have with other Asians with the future - there's plenty of genuinely good people out there. Don't discard, what, 2/3 of the world's population based on bad experiences with one person!

[Qiuyue]

Cadal,

what happened to you (the last episode at least) sound very much like what happened me and many other western guys when hitting on western girls. I think you are mistaking by doing it a asian/western question

[Lu]

Cadal, that sucks, you like a girl and then she doesn't like you. If you're a good guy and she doesn't see that, that's her loss, and good riddance for you. I hope you get over her soon, she's clearly not worth you getting upset over.

Not all Asians are like that though, so don't let one girl spoil it for an entire continent. Plenty of great people out there.

And you are on the right track, in the end being nice will get you much further than not being nice. It doesn't guarantee you'll never be disappointed, but it's still the better way. And at least you did muster up the courage to try and befriend this girl, failure can happen but if you don't try you'll definitely not succeed.

Good luck!

[cdn_in_bj]

Sorry to hear that, but she sounds self-centered to me. She's not worth the trouble - you'll find better. Hope you cheer up, and decide to stick around.

[floatingmoon]

I understand you feel upset and that's normal. Not everyone in the world are like that.

[huisheng]

Sorry, I don't understand how refusing a hongbao from some guy the girl hardly knows makes her a bad person. Conventionally you only receive hongbaos from people with higher social power - elders, employers, etc. You otherwise are given hongbaos by your children, as this way they show their dutifulness. Obviously what he does is out of accord with his status, therefore her reaction is no more than natural. If I was her, I would think he is weird and is up to something.

[Cadal]

That's one of the reasons I signed up to this forum so I can learn from my mistakes and others, ask advice, give it and hopefully also contribute to this fine community of people.

Though I understand enough of Chinese culture to know i don't know very much ... I do like most of what i have understood so far eg. the importance and weight given to family. Just bringing this back to where it was, myself making a mistake (probably something else rather then the hongbao thing, i can be a bit intense sometimes).

I do not think she is a bad person, and thanks to you all I think I understand why she handed it back and wish her all the best.

Thank you for your frank and honest opinion huisheng and thank you all for your feedback.

[here2learn]

And huisheng, it wasn't that she refused the hongbao, but he felt she 'blew him off' on the phone in an impolite way. As if eating ice cream was more important than talking to him.

But Cadal, give her some space regarding politeness - I know you're through with her, but for future relationships with chinese people - if they're recently from china, within the last year or so, they will still have some little habits we think are strange or rude... phone habits are one of them, I've found. I have never just "chatted" with a chinese person on the phone. It's like, get to business, what do you want, discuss it, or say what time we'll meet, then hang up. No reviewing the conversation, no long goodbyes, and yes, eating is usually more important than talking on the phone.

Actually I read something about conversations in different cultures. I think I read that Italians have the longest goodbyes, and Asians have the shortest.

Also, I don't know how much time there was between your coffee and dinner and hongbao-giving... but traditionally chinese people will have some time between contacts (I know too well! ), with time to digest it and think about the person and NOT be with them for a while. I mean, it's not like in the US (that's where I'm from so it's my reference) where, if the two people like each other, they'll be SUDDENLY spending all their free time together. Seeing someone every weekend is considered very frequent in china for the beginning of a relationship. Going a week (or more) without talking is normal and not to worry about. I know you said you didn't rush, but "rush" to us and to them mean different things. She DID say you've been contacting her too much recently. Contacting several times a week and going out every weekend can be normal "in the west", but in china it's moving quite fast and might make a traditional chinese person uncomfortable or thinking you may only want one thing, or if you're a girl, you're easy.

I KNOW I'm generalizing, and a lot of young people or westernized chinese people don't fit that, but it's what I've found it to be like here in china among mature non-party-animal people.

[trevelyan]

And you are on the right track, in the end being nice will get you much further than not being nice.

I don't think this is actually true.

[floatingmoon]

post #16: .....

But Cadal, give her some space regarding politeness - I know you're through with her, but for future relationships with chinese people - if they're recently from china, within the last year or so, they will still have some little habits we think are strange or rude... phone habits are one of them, I've found. I have never just "chatted" with a chinese person on the phone. It's like, get to business, what do you want, discuss it, or say what time we'll meet, then hang up. No reviewing the conversation, no long goodbyes, and yes, eating is usually more important than talking on the phone.

Actually I read something about conversations in different cultures. I think I read that Italians have the longest goodbyes, and Asians have the shortest.

Also, I don't know how much time there was between your coffee and dinner and hongbao-giving... but traditionally chinese people will have some time between contacts (I know too well! ), with time to digest it and think about the person and NOT be with them for a while. I mean, it's not like in the US (that's where I'm from so it's my reference) where, if the two people like each other, they'll be SUDDENLY spending all their free time together. Seeing someone every weekend is considered very frequent in china for the beginning of a relationship. Going a week (or more) without talking is normal and not to worry about. I know you said you didn't rush, but "rush" to us and to them mean different things. She DID say you've been contacting her too much recently. Contacting several times a week and going out every weekend can be normal "in the west", but in china it's moving quite fast and might make a traditional chinese person uncomfortable or thinking you may only want one thing, or if you're a girl, you're easy.

I KNOW I'm generalizing, and a lot of young people or westernized chinese people don't fit that, but it's what I've found it to be like here in china among mature non-party-animal people.

Wow, here2learn, you are so good at describing the cultural differences.

[here2learn]

Thank you floatingmoon! It's very nice to hear that from someone who certainly knows chinese culture!

[Cadal]

Thanks here2learn, very valuable information there (i have just donated using paypal to the community). She's been in Aus for about 6 years but your right.

I know you're through with her,

I did just want friendship however I don't want it to be over but a fear if i tried to recover with my limited knowledge on cultural differences i would just make it worse. I have not contacted her since the phone call and that was just over a week ago.

Besides saying hello and waving to me when i walked past on the way to work she never really contacted me, though she did replay to sms's (said she gets a lot from people however and does not read them all).

When i rang her i did say sorry your having dinner I'll ring you another time and she said no just say what you want to say, and she did walk out of the building to talk to me (too noisy). I did bring up something in the short conversation that i think made her angry though i thought that she was ignoring me, however i can't give specifics on what it was as its confidential.

I can say it was something i did not want to say but after i said it she said thank you - it was about someone she knew that one of my friends recently had a big problem with and i was just the messenger (bad situation to be in and she understood that). It was the right thing to do and i do not regret it as now it will not happen to her from the same person. I will do the right thing even if it will negatively impact on me.

I have learnt now from what 'here2learn' has said that she was was getting frustrated that i was contacting her since we were not meant to speak often at the beginning of the friendship.

I can be a bit intense at times (and I realize this can scare people off), I guess I get over excited with meeting new and interesting people with similar interests that i can be friends with.

I really do appreciate the feedback from this people.