how can I help chinese guy keep face at restaurant?

[here2learn]

THE SITUATION I NEED IDEAS FOR:

Restaurant.

1 chinese man, 1 white woman (me).

Date, friends, doesn't matter, that's not the point and it's not the waitress's business anyway.

WAITRESS BRINGS BILL.

Awkward moments:

#1 - Chinese guy waved/asked for bill but when waitress brings it she hands it to the white girl.

#2 - Waitress stands looking at white girl for the money.

#3 - Guy pays with no problem, but a different waitress returns with change and hands it to the girl.

Yes, all those have happened to me - or more importantly, happened to the guy. Each of those situations was a major slight to the guy, I felt it, and quite frankly I'm surprised chinese waitresses would do that to a chinese guy. We're in China, that's the tradition here. Even in the US the waitresses might look to the guy to pay if it looks like a date, or they'll remain physically neutral about it.

I KNOW it will happen again. It happens almost half the time I'm out with a chinese guy, even just as friends or with a coworker. (no, I'm not being selfish wanting him to pay, usually we know who will pay beforehand and will settle it among ourselves before or after)

So... what can I do or say (in chinese) in a cute way, to redirect her attention to HIM for the money, like she would probably do if we were both the same race?

CHINESE GUYS:

Imagine that situation, what could the girl do or say that would make you smile?

[muyongshi]

Sorry I can't help too much but I normally have the opposite situation. Me white male, with any number of people, no gender distinction, sometimes girls, sometimes guys, sometimes a group of each. I ask waitress for bill, she brings it and trys to hand it to the Chinese, whichever one, I hand her the money and the same lady comes back and trys to hand the change to the Chinese.....

[here2learn]

Ah! So you're like the guy in my situation, though you're not chinese....

Maybe we can help each other... what do your chinese friends do? What do you wish they'd do? Can you think of something they could say or do that would be cute or make light of it yet get it straightened out? Maybe I can get ideas.

When the waitress handed me the change I was surprised by it, so my first thought was to pretend I didn't see her and I turned to deal with my gloves, scarf, etc, and somehow she ended up dealing with the guy. I purposely ignored her I guess. Then again this was a date-like situation and he already paid. (why on earth would waitresses return change to a different person - to be honest I thought it was the same waitress who did that to me, but I thought I must have been imagining things and it MUST be a different one, who didn't know)

From my side, I guess I'd just hope the guy would speak up loud & clear and physically reach for it and claim it, quickly and no-doubt-about-it, in a happy way. That's the only thing I can suggest for you. I guess it's the one time you'll have to live up to that stereotype of the loud obnoxious foreigner, but in a good way for this purpose!

[muyongshi]

My friends usually just look at me with a perplexed look and then we laugh about it later. It doesn't make any of us feel too weird just more 莫名其妙的. And I usually do just reach out my hand and take it, never really say anything just put out my hand and take it...no biggie...

[zozzen]

I, as a male, never faced the embarassing moment like this. Every time the bill is delivered, I put the wallet at my hand and I let them know who's ready to pay. If I actually don't want to treat anyone, i will say "150 Yuan. 75 each. "

And if you're a girl who face this situation, simply talk to the waiter:

"他才是老板" (he's the boss --- the one who pay)

Then take the change, turn to your "boss" and pretend to be cute:

"老板, 这是给我的小费吗? "

[Outofin]

I don't mean to give advice, but here is what I would try.

Avoid eye contact with the waitress when she approaches. Hopefully, she will turn to your friend.

If it doesn't help, next time, run away. 对不起，我要用下洗手间。

Let him understand what you're trying to avoid is not the bill but the potential embarrassing moment.

[zozzen]

but going to toilet "借尿遁" isn't a good gesture at least in Cantonese manner.

[roddy]

If it's happening about half the time, I'd say the waiting staff are models of even-handed race and gender politics . . . .

Are the men actually that worried about it, or are you assuming they find it embarrassing? I'd say just be subtle about it - just gesture to where the bill is meant to be going, and if that's not enough just a quiet 给他吧 or something similar. Anything more marked is only likely to make it more embarrassing, if it is, and you're going to have a different waitress next time anyway . . .

[here2learn]

Ha, I like zozzen's idea about "is this my tip?" That's cute, that's just my style!

RODDY,

I don't want to give the impression this is a horrible problem, I mean I don't eat out alone with chinese guys THAT often. But I can distinctly remember a few times where this happened, and each time the guy was caught off guard. It's not the end of the world, but in english I'd probably make a cute comment to lighten things up and break the silence, that's all. I don't want the person I'm with to seem uncomfortable, and since I now know it happens, I'm the one with the "home advantage". Imagine you call the waitress for the check and when she brings it she ignores you and immediately happily faces the woman you're with to give it to her. I mean, she doesn't look to see whose hand is out, she practically keeps her back almost toward you and goes directly toward the woman. Weird. I think they've seen too many TV shows about women insisting on being independent and they think they're being hip and modern and helping me out or something.

OUTOFIN,

I know the bathroom thing, but I don't want the guy to think I'm being rude. I don't want to avoid the whole situation, I juts want to make light of it directly when it happens. Just something to break possible future awkward moments of the guy I'm with being ignored by the waitress when he wasn't expecting it.

My natural way to deal with an awkward moment is sometimes, when appropriate, lighten it and do/say something to make us smile so the embarrassed person forgets the embarrassment because he's suddenly busy smiling at whatever I just said or did. It's the way I am in english, but humor and subtleties and sarcasm don't translate well into other languages and cultures. So... I'm trying.

[imron]

There is of course the other bathroom trick, used often by the Chinese, where sometime before the end of the meal, you pretend to go to the bathroom but instead go to the front counter and pay the bill. This solves the problem of who gets given the change but unfortunately means you'd always end up paying

[muyongshi]

There is of course the other bathroom trick

Or the smoking trick....

[simonlaing]

Hi guys,

This is a oversensitivity issue

I have had similar experiences with a Chinese Canadian who could speak a little Cantonese but no mandarin. The servers would come to the table and pass the menu to him for his Chinese appearance. He would then pass it to me to read and order the dishes.

It is just getting used to dealing with the stereotypes.

But the first few times it can feel awkward but it is just a misunderstanding not really intentional making someone lose face so don't worry about it.

Good luck,

Simon:)

[zozzen]

There is of course the other bathroom trick, used often by the Chinese, where sometime before the end of the meal, you pretend to go to the bathroom but instead go to the front counter and pay the bill. This solves the problem of who gets given the change but unfortunately means you'd always end up paying

amazing, how do you know this!

I think this trick is common to 40-50+. When the bill is delivered, it's very common to see two Chinese friends are flushed to compete to treat others. At that time, i'd like they had used this trick.

But this can be a trap more than a trick now. In a restaurant a waiter always checks if the banknote is genuine. After this, a customer pretends to compete for paying the bill and take the money back to his friend. His friend disagreed, turn back the money to the waiter and raise a big confusion and secretly mix some counterfeit notes into the money.

[imron]

amazing, how do you know this!

近朱者赤，近墨者黑

[here2learn]

imron, can you please try to explain your chinese saying above?

zozzen - not so amazing to know these tricks! haha... I've seen them used lots of times, and by younger people too!

simonlaing - Thanks, you're right that I shouldn't be oversensitive about it, though it's a bit different from you & your friend being handed the menu. You are both guys? And you didn't purposely ASK for the menu and she ignored you, did she? In that case it'd be annoying (and rude of her), but if it's just her default quiet usual response it shouldn't make you feel bad because it's expected that the chinese-looking person will speak chinese.

In my case the man at the table sometimes gets ignored after asking for something, and not given the opportunity to "be the man" and pay, which, though it sounds unimportant to westerners, is important to some chinese guys.

One time (you could call it a "first date"), it happened just after the guy made it clear in a nice cute way to me that he would not let me pay, and he needs to show "he's the man".

So you see, if my language was quicker and sharper I could have made light of it, but as it went, he was caught off guard, so we both said nothing for the moment and I could see he was embarrassed.

[gougou]

So you see, if my language was quicker and sharper I could have made light of it, but as it went, he was caught off guard, so we both said nothing for the moment and I could see he was embarrassed.

I'm not Chinese, so take my advice with a grain of salt, but I'd suggest you just to laugh about it, to show you don't care. You're the main person he's worried about losing face with, so if you don't care, he'll feel a lot better already. Of course, once you know him well enough, you can even tease him about it...

[imron]

imron, can you please try to explain your chinese saying above?

Maybe something like "one takes the behavior of one's company", i.e when you get close to 朱 (vermilion) you become 赤 (red), and when you get close to 墨 (ink) you become 黑 (black). With vermilion/red referring to good, and ink/black referring to bad. So if you hang around with good people, you'll pick up good habits, and if you hang around with bad people, you'll pick up bad habits.

[heifeng]

Maybe the waitress just likes to look at the white girl, not a big deal, it happens. Usually if i'm with a Chinese homie who I frequently eat with, thus don't even need to argue about bill issues and such, I just slide some bills over to him before we ask for the check and then let him figure it out when the waitress comes over OR make him go up to the counter and pay just to make it look like he's actually paying for all of it. If the waitress actually hands me the bill I'll refuse it (somehow this is really quite easy to do...drats too bad I've already given my dining partner cash) and tell her to give it to him.

Have you considered maybe she just wants you to see the cost of the meal heheh...unless of course ya'll are just eating gaifan, then I dunno. Unlike in western countries where it seems like servers actually hide the prices and costs from the females (imagine nice leather folders with pens and such and menus for the ladies with no prices...)it seems like just announcing the price out loud and waving the bill around to set off the compeitition for who pays is quite common here:mrgreen: Don't over analyze it too much. Just practice your chinese and tell her to give him the bill.