New Book on "using memory techniques to learn characters"

[flameproof]

I came across an interesting new book:

Learning Chinese Characters

by Alison Matthews, Laurence Matthews

ISBN-10: 080483816X

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/080483816X

You can browse it here:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/080483816X/ref=sib_dp_pt/102-6782836-0859347#reader-link

It reminds me a bit on Heisig's "Remembering the Kanji", which also introduces memory techniques.

Memory techniques are basically there to help you to memorize things. A had a look into that recently and was amazed how fast and complete it can work. To give an example, if you show a person 20 random items, a normal person will remember about 5-7. If you string those items into a strange and vivid story you will remember all, in the right sequence.

The same works also for numbers, where the numbers 1-99 are given a picture. You need to remember those picture once, then you can string any number into a story. It's then easy to remember a 50 digit number in 2 Minutes, and keep that number forever in your memory if you want.

If you use the same on characters it should also help to remember more, faster.

That book is Vol.1 (800 characters) and there may be a Vol. 2 coming. But I guess if you really use memory techniques you can use it on characters as they come and don't really need Vol.2.

[so.many.words]

I remember my first class in China and the first time many in the class had studied Chinese ...many in the class would adopt a visual clue for remembering characters 中would be chicken speared through the middle, 本 was Ben Stiller but Ben Elton if your were a bit older and Ben Kingsley if you were over 35, 不 is a B on it's side that is NOT finished, and so on for an hour ...it was really funny ...by the end of the class there were conversations going on like ....what tone is Ben Stiller ....and what does the chicken on a stick mean, or was it pork.

I think that memory trainers like this are like pork too.(sh)

Did you check out the pictures for this book ....they are real REAL REAL Bad,

If you want to find a book along this line then check out Cecilia Lindqvist, China Empire of the written symbol ISBN0-00-272161-9 Is not a study guide but rather the evolution of the Chinese character

When learning you can see heaps of us leaning on something for support ...there are conversations going on right now about frequency lists and flashcards and playing cassettes while you sleep. For me I have to know the character before I can remember the pinyin ...so I am buggered when I just want to learn conversation ...also because I rely on characters I am hopeless at learning a new word in conversation and will not know it till later in the day when I have loaded up pleco on my palm and written it a dozen times.

I bought a thing called a fast find dictionary a while back ...it was a book that had characters in some crazy order of character feature. Like if there was a standing man radical on the top/bottom/left/right. But for many characters this had nothing to do with radicals and it would ignore the real radical that was present. I cannot think of an example right now, ...have been studying my head off today and might start crying. It had maybe 200 words so was useless as a dictionary and so you could fast find (that did not work for me either) every word that was not the one you needed. The only good thing was that I made $10 more on ebay than I paid for it.

I sometimes wonder if the authors of this stuff ever studied Chinese beyond the beginner levels ...how come there are no short cut tools for intermediate ot advanced users, ...could it be because there are no short cuts.

Oh God I better stop I can feel my eyes welling up now :cry:

[imron]

...could it be because there are no short cuts.

Bingo. Although there will be methods of learning that are more efficient, different things work for different people. Whatever methods you use, learning Chinese is a marathon not a sprint.

[so.many.words]

I could not help it I looked at the book again, the excerpt for Chapter 1 ...there is no pinyin ...arrrrrrggggghhhhh!!!

And when they say "We'll be taking it very gently to begin with, what they mean to say is ... "you don't have a clue but that's OK, neither do we"

And it was written by Mr and Mrs Matthews ...the only characters that you will find are the ones that you can turn into pictures ...and me thinks baby Matthews did the drawings

[flameproof]

I sometimes wonder if the authors of this stuff ever studied Chinese beyond the beginner levels ...how come there are no short cut tools for intermediate ot advanced users,

There is no need for intermediate or advanced levels. If you really do it that way then you can simply do your own stories after that first 800 characters.

there is no pinyin

It has Pinyin.

[so.many.words]

There is no need for intermediate or advanced levels. If you really do it that way then you can simply do your own stories after that first 800 characters.

Yea I know ...was just being swamy ...

Is a bugga after the first 800 we can do little better than "Hello, How are you, do you like coffee, no I like tea. Tomorrow Palanka and I are going to Shanghai to buy dongxi.

You are right it does have pinyin and even has the codes for HSK ...but then being HSK exam characters will mean it is even stiffer than a Practical Chinese Reader.

I have been reading Colloquial Chinese by Tung & Pollard ....in it Old Wang is a bit of a boozer and he hates kids and cooking but likes to eat what you cook for him ...

Except for the really crap pics in Learning Chinese Characters it is the closest I have seen to humour in a textbook and wish there was more of it.

One of my concerns about being really a fluent foreign Chinese speaker is that you have invested so much time and energy learning words that mean nothing outside the lives of Gubo & Palanka that you know nothing else ...and this is serious nerd and dull territory ...

When I am at a level I am happy with I will write a free downloadable workbook that will be about Natasha (Na ta shi) and her love-slave Kevin (Ke ben). In it they will buy lots of dongxi late at night. The dongxi will be black and new and maybe even a couple of purple ones if I am feeling adventerous. They will go to Shanghai, but Brian will not have pants and Natasha will be very happy.

Then I will list all the characters and as a memory aid I will make them all smutty.

It has been a long day ...can anyone tell:roll:

[flameproof]

One of my concerns about being really a fluent foreign Chinese speaker is ...

Mate, you really have problems!

[self-taught-mba]

For me I have to know the character before I can remember the pinyin ...so I am buggered when I just want to learn conversation

??? Huh? That's a new one here. While 60% or so of characters may have some phonetic component to give a clue to the pronunciation I'm not sure, why you can't remember the pinyin until after you know the character.

Quote:

...could it be because there are no short cuts.

Bingo. Although there will be methods of learning that are more efficient, different things work for different people. Whatever methods you use, learning Chinese is a marathon not a sprint.

I completely agree. There's still no short cut without the studying.

Regarding the whole thread. It seems to me that it would be easier although less entertaining to simply have a more regular review than trying to come up with wacky memorization schemes yourself in class. Although things that get attached to emotion are easier to remember and won't be forgotten easily. If someone has gone to the trouble of doing it for you though . . .

[m.ellison]

I put up some comments on the M&M book earlier at http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/2-favourite-chinese-musician1283

I'm now revising, though the New Year has meant a hiatus.

[so.many.words]

Mate, you really have problems!

....Yeah!

[so.many.words]

??? Huh? That's a new one here. While 60% or so of characters may have some phonetic component to give a clue to the pronunciation I'm not sure, why you can't remember the pinyin until after you know the character.

A topic for somewhere else and yea I know what I said ....I attach pinyin, tone and definition to remembering the character, I started studing that way and I cannot let go. Not touching the radicals might have a lot to do with it. Not having another Chinese speaker for 300km (except for my dog, and his putonghua is pretty good) might be another reason why I am so character strong and so orally weak. Not concerned though coz I know it will just burst out one day soon:wink:

[adrianlondon]

except for my dog, and his putonghua is pretty good

Apart from the grrrr-hua I'm sure it's fine.

[so.many.words]

Flameproof, I think you might have misunderstood me ....when I said

One of my concerns about being really a fluent foreign Chinese speaker is that you have invested so much time and energy learning words that mean nothing outside the lives of Gubo & Palanka that you know nothing else ...and this is serious nerd and dull territory ...

It was from a number of experiences of hiring da4bi2zi students as 'pseudo'-translators. On three occasions my company found some stunning Chinese speakers, they had spent most of their lives in financially disabled conditions as students (we would pay them very highly and they would travel and sleep as well as any of our best staff) and because their skills were not highly valued yet, (are they now I wonder??) they had little experience outside of studying and studying and studying. These were very academic people and all work but no play does make 'Jack' a very dull boy.

After working together for the day, and for many weeks we would go out with large groups of Chinese and unless you asked them (to translate something for you they had nothing else to say). I read Chinese Lessons by John Pomfret recently (his writing style rubbed me up the wall) ...and suspect that he too might fit this almost deadpan nerdy class of 'a fluent foreign Chinese speaker' that I was referring to and not wanting to be.

[flameproof]

and for many weeks we would go out with large groups of Chinese and unless you asked them (to translate something for you they had nothing else to say).

That's one of the reasons most Chinese are seen as boring people. Not that they don't know English, they simply don't talk, even they can. Those more talkative can say: Where you from? You like Chinese food?

Like an interpreter which left our company last year. Conversation was like that:

Me: how are you?

She: good

That was it. No way she could be alone with an overseas client. There would be dead silence for hours. Now I got one that talks too much, can be a little annoying at time, but still much better then a speechless speaker.

[IndhuRen]

I just finished using this book. It was fantastic, just wished it had come out earlier and would have saved a lot of trouble. The story aides for the characters are quite simple. Additionally, they even teach a system for remembering the pronounciation. I would suggest that a beginner should use this book in tandem with an additional learning material like Pimsleur. If one chooses to use the book as a stand alone learning material, then first learn the meaning of the characters and then go back to the pronounciation....

[flameproof]

I just finished using this book. It was fantastic, just wished it had come out earlier and would have saved a lot of trouble. The story aides for the characters are quite simple. ..............

The question that came up (and where I like hear your opinion), can you go on and make your own stories now or would you prefer a 2nd book?

I believe once you got the idea, you can imagine your own stories, which should work better then somebody else story.

[IndhuRen]

The question that came up (and where I like hear your opinion), can you go on and make your own stories now or would you prefer a 2nd book?

I believe once you got the idea, you can imagine your own stories, which should work better then somebody else story.

What a coincidence...I finished Vol 1 last week and was wondering whether to wait for Vol 2 but then went ahead and learned additional characters using the same methodology. The only problem I have is devising stories for the pronounciation. Additionally I nioticed that I had better recollection of the meaning of characters for which I had made up my own stories. The most important rule is that THE STORY MUST BE OUTRAGEOUS AND OBSCENE:oops: I think I will pass Vol 2 and stick to my own stories,,,,

[The Elf Piper]

I just got this book on the weekend and so far I'm finding it good. I think I knew about 3 characters before and now know about 30.

Somebody hand me a novel.

Is there any equivalent to "Dick and Jane" and "See Spot run" in Mandarin???

I'm also slowwwly working my way through Pimsleur so of course many of the characters shown haven't come up so far. I'm just working on remembering those I haven't learned yet in English and hope the Mandarin word will slot right in when the time comes. What do others do in that case?