A question regarding Chinese-American wedding

[SChinFChin]

But then still she should make an effort to explain this to her husband-to-be. They are planning to spend a lifetime together, the least one can do is starting it off with a bit of honesty and openness

You do have a point. I guess the complete answer would be "Bringing you to see my family in China is against tradtion for now, because by tradition, I cannot marry a foreigner".

The tough part here is that the fiance and future husband may press the point and insist on seeing the parents to prove what a nice person he is, or just to satisfy his curiosity. That's human nature. If the parents live in a small village or town, and the objection is not only based on their antipathy to the idea, but also the shame and humiliation they'll feel if friends and neighbors found out about it, then visiting would IMHO an extremely bad idea.

Of course, the fiance may have relatives wisper into his ears "maybe the reason why she's objecting is because she's already married".

To see this situation in the proper lens, one can imagine how far the USA has changed in the idea of "interracial" marriage, widely accepted here, not so in more closed societies, such as China. The best parallel today would be a "gay" couple wanting to get married, and one partner wanted to see the other partner's parents in the "conservative" south,

What would happen if the gay couple showed up, and word leaked out in town that they'll get married?? Would the parents have to move to avoid the gossip and humiliation. Knowing this, would I put my parents through this?? In some parts of the world, being "gay" is also illegal, punishable by death. Would I drag a "gay partner" to such a place just to prove I'm not married.

Sometimes I play mind games with myself, and after reading about people in Japan "hiring" older actors to play mom and dad at parties and weddings, I was thinking that in my situation, maybe I could've hired people to play my parents, maybe even show up at my wedding. Of course, I'll have to think of another story why my parents suddenly disappeared and never came back afterwards.

Along the lines of hiring actors to play mom and dad, I read a story very recently about older Chinese folks in China whose sons and daughter left town for jobs or marriage, advertising in the paper for people for play their "sons" or 'daughters. for company. One couple who did it got a surprisingly good response, several older women in their 40's, whose been coming regularly to help with shopping, watch TV with them etc. I read in the news report that it's not an isolated incident.

[Lu]

The tough part here is that the fiance and future husband may press the point and insist on seeing the parents to prove what a nice person he is, or just to satisfy his curiosity. That's human nature.

True enough. It's a difficult situation no matter how one handles it, but you don't really want to find yourself alienating the very man you just disappointed your parents for by telling him half-truths. And if you tell him 'not before the wedding' he'll press even harder after the wedding.

I suppose what might do the least damage is maybe something like calling the parents immediately after the fact, and within half a year or so make a trip to some big city near the bride's hometown, so that there is at least the opportunity for the parents to come and see how bad it is without them loosing face back home, like they would if the neighbours would see the laowai husband.

But that's just me theoreticizing.

[SChinFChin]

I suppose what might do the least damage is maybe something like calling the parents immediately after the fact, and within half a year or so make a trip to some big city near the bride's hometown, so that there is at least the opportunity for the parents to come and see how bad it is without them loosing face back home, like they would if the neighbours would see the laowai husband.

One thought I had along these lines is instead of paying for a trip to visit China, pay instead for mom and dad's plane ticket to the USA. This would even sound generous.

If they work it out right, they might even be able to do it before the wedding, though I wouldn't push my luck.

This way, the parents would be spared the spectacle of their daughter holding hands with a "gweilo" walking around town, and then having to explain what happened.

[Lu]

That could also work, but the downside is that if it doesn't work, you're pretty much stuck with two disgruntled parents in a place strange to them for the duration of their stay. If you travel to them and it comes to worst, you can at least walk out of the restaurant (after paying of course) and leave the parents to find their own way back to the train station, and do some touring through China by yourselves to get the sour taste out of your mouth.

[SChinFChin]

That could also work, but the downside is that if it doesn't work, you're pretty much stuck with two disgruntled parents in a place strange to them for the duration of their stay

This downside should be apparent to the parents as well, which may well determine whether they'll accept the invitation or not.

On the one extreme, someone like my parents may say "don't bother me, I told you I got nothing to do with you anymore". Obviously they won't come. In this case, visting them would be a wasted effort.

In between, some parents may feel the son or daughters may have broken the rules. For these, I would give them the option of visiting here, or meet somewhere in China, probably some time after the wedding when things cool off a bit..

Then, for those where shame and humiliation is the driving force, it might be less of a problem if it's out of town and no one is watching, they probably would have no trouble coming by to visit. and give the husband plenty of opportunity to show his worthiness.

If the parents feel strongly against it, I doubt they even will accept the invitation to come, or meet in China, but it'll be a good indicator of their attitude.

As for me, I hate to spend all that good money going to China, and find myself thrown out of the house, and then feel bad the rest of the trip. I know how bad and embarrassing it feels because me, my wife, and mother-in-law were all thrown out of the house a month before the wedding. It's less painful if it was just me being yelled at.

[Woodpecker]

There is a further downside: once the parents receive the invitation, they know their daughter is dating a Westerner...and then they may start pressuring their daughter to break up the relationship just as others here have experienced.

[Lu]

I s'pose you would fish a bit first, preferably even before you meet a westerner you like, so that it truly is hypothetical. So mum, what would you say if I came home with a westerner? Or the parents have brought it up themselves. After a while you can be fairly sure of what the parents think about this, and whether or not you should invite them.

Anyway if the parents are far away in China, you could even invite them to the wedding. All they can do is nag over the phone, after all. And then visit them after the wedding, or have them visit you, when the rice is already cooked.

[SChinFChin]

I s'pose you would fish a bit first, preferably even before you meet a westerner you like, so that it truly is hypothetical

Actually, my wife dated a westerner for a short while and tried that on her mom, saying something like "what do you think if this leads to marriage", got a reply along the lines of "if you really love the guy, then I suppose it's OK."

Lots have to do with family circumstance. First, a cousin had already married a westerner, so the stigma is not that great, and not only that, there's at least one family member you can invite to the wedding.

Second, from what I'm told, her mom's marriage was "loveless" in her later years, so it's "wouldn't it be nice if my daughter is in love??. Of course, it doesn't work in all cases, such as my parents where the attitude is "if we're miserable, why shouldn't you be"??

The attitude in the USA of course would be different than China, where in some places westerners are seldom seen. My dad said after the war, when he visited China, he noticed everyone stopped and gawked at a westerner walking down the street at a small town he was at, like someone just landed from Mars. They were visting GI's. And when it was a black person, everyone walking down the street hurried to the other side. Imagine telling these people about your son or daughter marrying a foreigner??

[Senzhi]

My dad said after the war, when he visited China, he noticed everyone stopped and gawked at a westerner walking down the street at a small town he was at, like someone just landed from Mars. They were visting GI's. And when it was a black person, everyone walking down the street hurried to the other side. Imagine telling these people about your son or daughter marrying a foreigner??

... and more than 50 years later it's still like that in some places.

[renzhe]

... and more than 50 years later it's still like that in some places.

In many places. The amount of gawking I got outside of Beijing/Shanghai only weeks ago was quite shocking. I literally had a whole restaurant stop eating and stare at me once, and it was a touristy place too.

But to add some positive side to the debate, I've met my girlfriend's parents while in China, and they treated me like a king. As did her cousins, aunts and uncles, who all insisted on having dinner with us. So it's not always a sour affair, though I can definitely imagine that it still is a huge deal for some people out there.

[Lu]

But then that gawking is mostly because of the utter strangeness of the foreigner, and not out of malice or prejudice. After the initial shock of their child marrying what is basically a martian, the parents might come to like the foreigner despite his (usually his) strangeness. While if a Chinese-American family disapproves of a foreign in-law, that is, I imagine, not so much because of the strangeness of the foreigner (after all they have seen thousands by that time), but because they have something against foreigners, and that would perhaps be harder to change.

[renzhe]

But then that gawking is mostly because of the utter strangeness of the foreigner, and not out of malice or prejudice

I know, and I have to say that I have never once felt threatened while in China, nor did I get the idea that someone hated me.

People did try to cheat me out of my money about a million times a day, though, assuming that I'm loaded with money and stupid enough to believe everything, but this was mostly around tourist destinations. Once you get away from the train stations and the tourist places, people were universally great.

But, as you say, it's sometimes different when you want to marry their only child.

[davidzq]

my experience in dealing with many couples in this cross cultural relationship is that it is more customary to meet the parents prior to getting married (although you might not meet them till it's really a done deal in both of your hearts on some level--meaning, as a casual foreign boyfriend you might not necessarily meet them)... but exceptions occur and sometimes the chinese native knows of issues that makes not meeting a decision they think is best. And the best thing you can do in such a situation is simply follow their lead on it...