Ideal pitch range in Mandarin?

[Jackdk]

Does anyone have information about the “ideal pitch range” in Mandarin?

Some speakers and actors on radio programs, as well as teachers on various AV learning materials seems to exaggerate the tones (pitch range) when they read a text or perform a monologue. For the same reason people would probably find it very strange if they heard such distinct and exaggerated pronunciation during a normal conversation (…”he always talks like a radio play or the best smurf in class” ;-). By exaggerated I also mean “too clear/perfect”. Overdoing it.

So my question is: what is an “ideal” pitch range? Could it perhaps be expressed as the “normal (native) pitch level” and n Hz below that (low third tone pitch) to n Hz above that (first tone pitch)?

If so it should be possible to record ones voice on the computer and compare the recording against the “ideal“ pitch range.

/J

[anonymoose]

I can't really answer your question, but just to comment on this:

Could it perhaps be expressed as the “normal (native) pitch level” and n Hz below that (low third tone pitch) to n Hz above that (first tone pitch)?

I suspect the answer to this is 'no', because the perceived difference in pitch for a given frequency interval depends on the frequency itself. In other words, perceived pitch and frequency are not linearly proportional. For example, musically, middle C has a frequency of about 256 Hz. C one octave above this has double the frequency at 512 Hz (therefore a difference of 256 Hz), but C one octave below has half the frequency at 128 Hz (a difference of 128 Hz). So, first of all, the n in the n Hz you mentioned could not be the same for the range above and the range below the 'normal pitch level'. Also, supposing (for the sake of argument) the average pitch range is one octave either side of the 'normal pitch level', to express this as a frequency range n Hz, the value of n would be higher for people who have a naturally higher 'normal pitch level' (eg. women), and lower for people with a naturally lower 'normal pitch level'.

[SWWLiu]

Sorry, I have really no answers or specific frequency ranges for you either.

I don't think there is an "ideal" pitch range for everybody in Mandarin. I do think, however, there is a "natural" pitch range for everyone, male or female, that makes one's speech "comfortable" and "relaxed" sounding. Unless you are singing, you have to beware of the tonal restrictions and not "shift" up or down during speech, lest you be considered overly dramatic. Actors in xiang4sheng1 dialog also use a tremendous variation in pitch for dramatic effect.

The "recitatives" in Peking opera do rise and fall for emphasis, but, as you have noted, that's drama. I think for normal speech, "naturalness" may be key.

On the other hand, speed of delivery appears to play a greater role: A hurried delivery signals nervousness; a measured pace, with occasional pause for emphasis, will come across with seriousness and gravity. Also, I think clarity and sonority are generally preferred over tonelessness (or even falsetto).

I hope other respondents can come up with more specific frequency ranges or related comments (classified according to male and female, and to age)?

[huisheng]

As far as I know, no Chinese speak Mandarin in a 铿锵有力 way on a daily basis, if I understand "ideal pitch range" correctly. I've heard non-native speakers trying to speak like that and it was really not nice. When you can't sound native, being high-pitched is harsh. A laowai accent is fine the way it is, as long as you pronounce every single word clearly.

[roddy]

A laowai accent is fine the way it is, as long as you pronounce every single word clearly.

What's a laowai accent, exactly? And which committee decided it was fine?

As for the actual topic, there are a number of studies that have information on this type of thing. The one that looks most relevant seems to be this (pdf). I can't copy and paste text out of it, but basically if I'm reading it right, a study based on a corpus of people booking tickets over the phone found an average pitch range of 16.3 semitones. No difference in ranges across gender, although there is a difference in absolute pitch.

That's the average pitch range across speakers. There's a more extreme range across 'intonation phrases'. For an intonation phrase the average pitch range is 10.2 semitones, but it varies between 26 semitones and 1.3. Presumably due to phrases where the speaker needs to be clear (saying their name / address) and not so clear - saying thanks at the end.

I'd come across that study before so went looking for it. There's more on Google, and you could maybe track stuff down via the references in that study.

If you do a Google advanced search function and limit results to pdfs this stuff becomes a lot easier to find.

[huisheng]

A laowai accent, in my definition, is the unique speaking pattern westerners have, of which the major characteristic is the wrong intonation. When I say fine, it means laowai accented Mandarin with clear pronunciation is perfectly understandable, which is the key in communication.

[Jackdk]

Thanks to you all.

It seems like linguistic / phonetic software tools such as Praat could be used for pitch analysis.

Slightly scary what Roddy is able to come up with… Thanks again.

[SWWLiu]

I have not tracked down the original sources cited by Roddy. However, the ranges given would seem unexpectedly large to me:

------------------------------

Quote (from Roddy):

... a study based on a corpus of people booking tickets over the phone found an average pitch range of 16.3 semitones. No difference in ranges across gender, although there is a difference in absolute pitch. That's the average pitch range across speakers. There's a more extreme range across 'intonation phrases'.

For an intonation phrase the average pitch range is 10.2 semitones, but it varies between 26 semitones and 1.3. Presumably due to phrases where the speaker needs to be clear (saying their name / address) and not so clear - saying thanks at the end.

-------------------------------

Since 12 semitones (in equal temperament) constitute an octave (or a factor of 2 in frequency), an average pitch range of 16.3 semitones is over an octave and a range across "intonation phrases" of 26 semitones is over two octaves. I guess both figures are larger than expected for me, though still not unreasonable.

In American English, the mid-Western accent is usually considered standard -- I particularly like the mellow Californian accent, which also appears to have a large range across "intonation phrases." Anyone from the West Coast among the Forum visitors? Do you agree that Californian speech has a comparatively greater range across intonation -- in other words, the smooth phrases tend to "go up-and-down" more widely than other regions of the U.S.?

[roddy]

I had a quick look to see if I could see any quoted pitch ranges for English, found one reference to 3/4 to a full octave of range within an intonation unit being 'very wide', so I guess for an English speaker at least the 10.2 semitones equivalent for Chinese would seem wide, but not out of the ball park. source, pdf again,

This stuff isn't actually hard to find - the pdf in my above post was actually the first result on Google for 'pitch range chinese', until this post knocked it off at some point today. Haven't read this stuff in detail, and might not understand if did

As for huisheng, I don't think anyone even halfway serious about being competent in a language can accept an accent where the main characteristic is 'wrong' anything. Communications is of course key, but there's a lot to be said for not sounding like a freak.

[huisheng]

Something's wrong with me when that posting was made. Please forget it.