The story of my life

[Woodpecker]

They answer this time is that I would have to wait till my brother finished college, and start working. As my brother was 10 years younger, I would have to wait till I'm 35 years old.

Your post saddened me but also made me curious: how do the parents justify this sort of behaviour? Is the real answer that they cannot bear to be without their children, and they are making any excuse to keep them around? Or is it more a matter of pride/superiority: "My family is the purest Chinese family in the whole of America: not a single Westerner penetrated our defenses" sort of attitude?

I don't mean to be nasty (sorry if it comes across this way), just as a Westerner I am astonished that anyone would behave so obnoxiously (of course I understand that I dont' have the benefit of a Chinese cultural upbringing).

[gato]

how do the parents justify this sort of behaviour? Is the real answer that they cannot bear to be without their children, and they are making any excuse to keep them around? Or is it more a matter of pride/superiority: "My family is the purest Chinese family in the whole of America: not a single Westerner penetrated our defenses" sort of attitude?

Many Chinese parents expect complete obedience from their children. That must be what's happening with SChinFChin's parents. Note that his wife is Chinese, and yet they still refused her because he lived on his own without their permission. Confucian ethics is a bit one-side. There's much emphasis on the children's responsibilities towards the parents, but not much on the parents' responsibilities towards the children.

[mixed_girl]

Hi SChinFChin,

Thank you very much for your response. I was crying a lot after finished reading your story. Indeed, life is so unpredictable.

My sister got married the first time at about 19 years of age, having left home at 18, to a husband of "Puerto Rican" descent. My parents yelled and screamed and told her "that's she's not a daughter anymore", and don't show her face back home. She left and didn't come back for ten years, till her 1st husband died, and her kids were 8 and 10 years of age.

Your sister is very brave. I really applaud her for that bravery. It's really sad that her husband have died, but looking at her situation in the positive side, she got to married her lover and got to spend some of the greatest moment with him. Her children must be very beautiful and it is really nice that they were brought up in a multicultural environment.

As to your mom saying you'll have to wait for this and that before you married, my parents was afraid I was going to leave home, when I wanted to move out, and look for an American women. They first told me that I should finish college. I did that. They said I should finish grad school. I did that.. They said I should find a job and save some money first. So, I worked for two and three years, and put my whole paycheck in the bank, for a few years.

Yes, my mother has been telling me to do that. First, to finish college, then career, and then save money. I have been doing and will be doing the three of them. I finished college and I will be starting grad school this August. I have been working in part time jobs just to save money. I haven't been able to find a decent full time job. I am expecting of myself to work hard in schools so by the time, I get out I get to have a solid career.

I was by then 28 years old already, and wanted to move to a place of my own. I work Monday to Saturdays, help in their store on Saturday, so I figured I go out to be with my friends on Sunday, or date. They tell me they work all week, doesn't get a chance to see me, and I should wait till they get up and eat on Sunday. They get up at 1:00PM on Sunday, get to eat at 3:00PM, and when I follow that schedule, my weekend starts at 5:00PM Sunday.

I believe I will be more or less of your age by the time, I finish grad school and get to save some real money. It's understandable in that you wanted to move to a place by your own at that age. I mean how can you not?? You are very hardworking. It's hard to work from Mondays through Saturdays. I find it so sad that the only time you got to have for yourself was on Sundays after 5:00 pm. . Your work so hard and you should deserve to do with your time whatever you want. It's really unfair that you have to put up with this situation.

It was difficult to find dates if the only time you have for them is Sunday after 5:00PM.

I can see how it could be difficult. When I was dating my fiance for the first time, I have some issue with the time. I still do, but the situation has improved a lot.

I found a place, I moved, and they yelled and screamed, and told me not to come home. I asked them when is a "good time to move". They answer this time is that I would have to wait till my brother finished college, and start working. As my brother was 10 years younger, I would have to wait till I'm 35 years old.

Wow, that is so selfish from them to ask you to wait till your brother finished college. The pattern here from them is that they are always going to make some excuses. It never ends. I know my mom is capable of doing this. She hasn't done a single thing to make me feel better or reassure me in some way. It's all about complaints after complaints. First is this and second that.....as I said before, "The list of excuses keeps expanding."

I married three years after moving out to a Chinese girl, but they refuse to come to the weddimg because I didn't follow their rules. I'm married 29 years now, and have two girls of my own.

I am very happy that you have found that perfect someone. It must have been hard for you to see that you parents weren't coming to your wedding. You have been abiding to almost of the rules that they have imposed on you as much as you could and they didn't recognize and value your efforts whatsoever. I can't help but be angry and frustrated at the same time when I hear this. Are we born to be people with our own wills or are born to be puppets for our parents for our entire lives?

Some people suggest they see a therapist. That gets them all the more angry as they said I'm the crazy one, and why should they see a therapist if I'm the crazy one

I get the feeling that my parents are going to react the same way if I ask them to see a therapist. They don't see that it isn't matter of who is or who isn't being crazy here. It's a matter of flexibility, tolerance, communication, and happiness.

Some people say it takes time. They are partly right. I took my wife along to visit them a few times a year, and for the first 10 to 15 years, they hardly spoke to her. My wife speaks Cantonese, so does my parents. They finally came around and acknowleged her after 15 years, when I took my duaghters along.

Wow, it took them 15 years to finally acknowledge your wife and your daughters? I guess that it is better too late than never. I just don't get why can't we all get along? Why is it so hard? Why it took such long time to see such mistake? Is it so hard to see your child happy?

My wonderful wife put up with it, but I doubt it if anyone else will,

I am happy that you have such wonderful wife. It speaks a lot about your relationship by the way you labeled her as "wonderful". My fiance has put up with a lot of things that my mother has done to him, which I resented my mother for doing those things. He is really truly wonderful and I am never going to let him go out of my life.

My brother followed their rules, and let they go look for a Chinese girl for him. He met a few and told them he didn't care for any of the ones he saw, and finally told them not to waste his time. He's almost 50 years old now, and never married.

So sad to read that. I hope that he gets to find that partner. He still has time. He may be depressed and may show that he doesn't care anymore, but I am sure that he still has some hope in his heart. My fiance's mother found her perfect someone at the age of 50 and remarried again. Anecdotes like this gives hope. Perhaps, changing environment would allow him to meet new faces.

A few years ago, I asked my dad how things were going finding a girl for my brother. I was trying to be a wise guy and also see if he finally saw the light. My dad shook his head and said he gave up on it already. I smiled to myself, said to him "in today's society, people choose their own spouses, and you're wasting your time and his looking for a Chinese girl". He didn't argue.

Well said.

That' my way of saying to you, that your mom would say you should do this, that and the other thing, and by the time you're done, you'll be 50 years old already.

I agree with you 100%. My instinct tells me not to wait. She may think that what she is doing will make me happy someday. But I don't think she has the slightest clue of what makes me happy or not. She let superstitions and culture bias to get into my way of happiness. There is no doubt that she is a really great mother, but in this case, I believe I know what my happiness is.

It actually happened to a customer of my dad's some years ago. She was a beautiful women of about 50 at the time, and my dad remarked she was supposed to finally get married. My dad said this women's mom objected to the guy she wanted to marry, said she should do this, do this, that, and the other thing, and the women waited and waited and waited, till finally her mom died, and she was already over 50. She finally set a wedding date, after patiently dating this man for over 20 years.

The sad part of the story is the man she was going to marry got hit and killed by a car the week before the wedding.

That is really sad. To have patiently waited 20 years and then your man dies in such horrible accident It's so unfair.

My suggestion is you're old enough to make your own decision. You may have to make the wedding plans without her. My future "mother-in-law" tried to come by, talk nice to my parents,, but was thrown out of the house. She never spoke to my parents since.

Yes, I agree with you. I guess that is the best thing to do. It's such cruel reality knowing that your parents are not part of your wedding. My fiance's family is very nice to me. I find it really shameful in that parents cannot be as nice as my fiance's parents are to me and there isn't a real reason to justify this at all.

And how did I tell him about the upcoming weddig?? It's "do you want your name on the wedding invitation, and how do you want your name spelled out on the wedding invitation in Chinese" ." We don't want to spell it wrong" You don't want to show up?? "OK Should we tell the guests the groom's parents died, or they're too sick to walk"??.

I guess I couldn't ever do that to my parents. Telling them if they are too sick or something that they couldn't come to the wedding. Judging from the last conversation that I have with my mother and brothers, I believe that none of them are going to be present in my wedding. If my mother said not to call her mother anymore because I didn't follow her rules, then by deduction, it also means that she won't be present in the wedding that she never approve of, which she can't really approve or not because I am the person to decide this; I am not an object.

We had our wedding withoout them, or anyone from our family. My sister had two weddings done that way.

I have been trying to prepare myself for that reality.

My parents are both in their 80's now, him bedridden, and her in a wheelchair, and have an attendent come by each day. My brother comes by every weekend because he's got no where else to go. Lately, they been trying to be nice to me, and my mom asked me if I wanted to stay for dinner when I went myself to see them the other week, the first time in 29 years. I almost cried. She said I looked a bit tired. Well, I told her I have to hit the road to be home with my family. She said "that's very nice".

I wonder what's going through their minds right now, having wasted their whole life fighting their kids. I kept thinking, "that how they wind up". Very sad.

It's such cruel reality to seem in those health conditions. They are old and powerless. You guys have spent your lives abiding your parents' rules. Because they are your parents, they are powerful figures in your lives. You guys wanted to live your lives, but instead have waited so many years in order for them to be happy for you and/or to have them take part of the most important days of your lives. As humans, we have our own limits. You guys have endured more than what your limits have allowed you to do. You think that after so many efforts to please them, life would have return you with rewards, but that isn't always the case. In some situations, it is too late. Your parents being in their ways that they are right now, it is almost like a life lesson being taught there. They are powerless in the states that they are in. If you were in the street and didn't know your parents, you will seem them as powerless. I am guessing what I am trying to say here is that perhaps our life lesson here is that our parents were never meant to dictate our lives and intrude in our loved life in such harmful and toxic way. We should be dictating our lives.

Thank you very much for your response. Your experiences were insightful to me.

-Mixed_girl

[mixed_girl]

Many Chinese parents expect complete obedience from their children. That must be what's happening with SChinFChin's parents. Note that his wife is Chinese, and yet they still refused her because he lived on his own without their permission. Confucian ethics is a bit one-side. There's much emphasis on the children's responsibilities towards the parents, but not much on the parents' responsibilities towards the children.

Yes, that is what I have problem with. I am a big supporter of respect and of equality. Why can't there be mutual respect between the parents and children? As parents, you expect your children to obey you because of expectations. Surely, there has to be a line to differentiate between a human with will versus a puppet/slave. We as children expect them to support us because of expectations as well. However, this rule gets undervalued because children doesn't get to have a said about this, right? I find this philosophy of thinking twisted.

[mixed_girl]

how do the parents justify this sort of behaviour? Is the real answer that they cannot bear to be without their children, and they are making any excuse to keep them around? Or is it more a matter of pride/superiority: "My family is the purest Chinese family in the whole of America: not a single Westerner penetrated our defenses" sort of attitude?

I don't believe that there is any REAL reason to justify this behavior. However, there is a lot of excuses, which may be confused as reasons to them. If I were to guess about my parents' justification of this kind of behavior, it would be that because they are the parents and they know what is the best for us. We as youngster don't know anything because we didn't go through the "experiences" that they went through. You see this? It justs excuses. This isn't reason. First, just because you give birth to your children, it doesn't give you the right to choose their partners. You are giving birth to a human, not an object. . Second, what they went through is different from what we go through. Why should the children pay the price by being sujected to their parent's whims? This is control, not love. There is an element of pride and superiority just by having the title of "parents". Just observe at the Chinese culture, you can call their elder by addressing in a certain way and not their names. The Spanish culture that I grew up with, everyone calls each other by their names and I don't see this as disrespectful. It justs show that "I am not better than you and you are not better than me. We are equal and there is no reason of why we shouldn't call each other by our names." I address my family not by their names, but in certain ways and the reason is because I like to keep the peace. I am not really sure about the Western issue and penetrating the Chinese defense. For some family, they may have issue with the race, and for others, they may have fears of what is foreign to them. It's easy to protect yourself by believing stereotypes especially when your surrounding reinforces those stereotypical beliefs.

I am guessing the real reason lies within a mix of all those elements that you brought up.

-Mixed_girl

[SChinFChin]

I don't believe that there is any REAL reason to justify this behavior. However, there is a lot of excuses, which may be confused as reasons to them. If I were to guess about my parents' justification of this kind of behavior, it would be that because they are the parents and they know what is the best for us

I think sometimes people don't realize times have changed.

My parents was the result of an arranged marriage, which was 99% of the case in their time. The way I heard it, my grandma let the word out, and someone knew someone who had a daughter ready for marriage. From my mom's side, they heard someone who emigrated to America was looking for a wife.

When I was 10 years old, once my mom was in a bad mood, and had a screaming match with my dad, and said something that "it was not the life she expected". I learned later that she went to "high school", a rarity then for girls, to prepare to teach school, and she was sweet on a neighborhood boy. Little did she expect to suddenly be the wife of a "laundryman" in America.

My dad appears to understand her "sorry story", which was why he did all the shopping, cooking, and ran the business when I grew up. She refused to learn English, considering it an inferior culture. Even though she entered the US in 1948, never became a citizen of a "babarian nation". When dad closes the shop at 7:00PM, he rolled up his sleeves to cook, and had dinner on the table by 8:00PM. She never cleaned house either, niether did he, and from the time I was a teenager, I cleaned the house on my own every Sunday morning while they slept to 1:00PM.

This is where they're coming from. Some places stay in a "time warp", as my parents minds, and I was reminded of it when China opened up, in the 1970's and a US reporter asked a "peasant" women in a remote region "what she thought about the death of Mao". She was surprised and asked who Mao was. When told Mao was the leader of China, she said "so what happened to the Emperor"??

When I left home at 28 years of age, I did had on my mind starting a family, without the misery of my parents. Having worked for a number of years, and socialized, I realized that my circle of friends all came about from my college years, and getting smaller and smaller as people marry, have kids, relocate for jobs etc. The time window is closing.

I also realized that if I waited to age 35 to start socializing, as my parents demanded, I'm not the type that's going to suddenly go to single bars to meet people, and start a new circle of friends.

My brother is a text book study. After college, and wasting his time waiting for dad to introduce him to that right Chinese girl, most of his friends moved on, got married, and are now involved with their kid's activities. As he's not the type to hang around singles bars, in fact, would look ridiculous in them, he spent the last 20 years visiting mom and dad on weekends.

Another problem is my mom and dad made few friends in America, either American or Chinese, and most of his relatives from China had moved or died back at the time I had problems with them. My mother in law, I believe, correctly observed that "therapists" are not the answer for these people, but "older relatives", an elder in the family, who can come in and tell them, "the Emperor is not around anymore, you're in a new land and century. You're the ones that came to America. If you wanted to preserve the Chinese culture, don't raise your kids in America, stay in your village in China".

I decided my wife was the right person for me 2 weeks after meeting her, and we were engaged after 3 months. She felt the same. We're married 29 years now. Many people said my parents should have rejoiced that I met someone just a year younger than me (ideal age), graduated with a masters from an Ivy League school (University of Pennsylvania), spoke Chinese, great personality, and gorgeous to boot.

Someone like this comes once in a lifetime.

Of course, they would rather arrange for me to have a farm girl from the village. In fact, a friend, from the group of friends I hung around with, with TWO MASTER'S degrees, allowed his parents to pick a girl for him from China. I met this guy once, when another friend from this group had me and my wife over for dinner, and he explained that we have to speak to this women in "Toishan", as she's from some farm village, and haven't learned English yet. She doesn't speak Cantonese nor Mandarin.

Yikes!!

Of course, you don't know what the future would bring. If you met this ideal person, then your parents not being able to come to the wedding is secondary.

My parents did not come to my wedding, nor my sisters two weddings, and when my sisters two daughters married, they had nothing to do with them either. I attended my sister's second wedding, and both of my nieces, and kept in touch with that whole branch of the family.

The fact that my parents has nothing to do with these grandchildren, whose loss is it anyway?? Can they go back now and rewind things??

And as I said, my wife endured the "silent treatment" for 15 years. That in itself is a testament of her love for me.

[mixed_girl]

In my case, my parents were not arranged for marriages. Mom was one of the most brilliant student in her high school and the principal of the school persuaded his son to date and marry my mom as she was brilliant and gorgeous. Her native language is a Chinese dialect that is similar to Toishan, but even then, she knew her Cantonese and Mandarin. She could have gone to an university, but couldn't because she wanted to take care of her three siblings and there wasn't any money available.

Eventually, she chose to marry my dad even though her parents were opposed to it. She never thought that she was going to the United States or to a Spanish country, but only thought, that a son from such respectable school principal would have been taught manners, respect, and other important values of life. As time has passed, they started to dislike each other especially mom to my dad. His family didn't want anything to do with us ( I didn't meet my grandparents till I was 16 years-old). Mom has always resented the way my father's mother treated her and us and the way my father let her mother affect their relationship. My father always sided with is parents. In the past, mom had a great personality, but her marriages has turn her soured. She hasn't been the same anymore for years.

Right now, she works in a sweatshop seven days a week, 10 hours a day with a boss that exploits their money and she blames that she can't learn English because none of her coworkers speak English. She also said that she doesn't see the point anymore because she is getting old and her memory is not used what it used to be.

I am a person who study a lot. There isn't much social life going on with me as I am shy and not the type of person who hang out with people in bars, clubs, etc. I met my first bf who later became my fiance while I was in school. I was inexperienced with dates and when he asked me out, I said no. I kept saying no to myself, but I couldn't do it forever because I found myself thinking about him everyday and every hour even when I was trying to study. Eventually, I gave in to my heart and I dated him. Things were wonderful then. Now, things has gotten even more wonderful. There is no doubt that he is right for me as we shared the same priorities in life and we love each other very much.

You found yourself a great wife and a great family. There is a lot of love going on and you have been married for twenty-nine years. I really hope that my relationship with my hubby to be gets to be successful as yours are.

Thank you for your great and powerful insights. I commented my fiance about what you wrote and said and he said that you are great and that you are his vindicator.

-Mixed_girl

[mixed_girl]

Hi SChinFChin,

I wrote you an email yesterday night and was wondering if you received it. Let me know about it as soon as you read this message. There is something going on right now and I need your advice about it.

Thanks,

Mixed_girl

[SChinFChin]

Hi.

I just sent a reply, let me know if you did not receive it. Spent all day yesterday cleaning some viruses off my computer.

Frank

[mixed_girl]

Hi Frank,

I got your reply. Thank you so much for everything. You offered some good advices and I will definitely put them into action.

Thanks,

Mixed_girl

[crazy-meiguoren]

MG, I am so saddened to hear that your mother is stubbornly refusing to honor your heart's desire. What is worse is that she is not open to seeing any other ways. Superstition can be a cruel taskmaster, especially when it serves as an effective tool for control.

You clearly wish to honor your parents in making your life decisions; you have not taken this matter very lightly. Unfortunately, the time is at hand for you to either launch out and follow your heart's desire, or to follow your mother's bidding. Either way, you will not have the complete package of joy that you hope for, since your mother is not pleased with what really makes you happy. You could delay your marriage by a few more months, hoping that she will come around, but that tactic has already failed before. Sad to say, you are not going to get different results if you do the same thing over again. It's like a dangling a carrot in front of a horse - the reward is unattainable; it is visible only to make the horse go to where the driver wants it to go.

If you marry your fiance, you will not have your family's support. If you don't, you won't be getting any support from them either, only demands. You're asking for something reasonable - you have already proved it by living responsibly. Your mother is asking you to "do it right" by your family's cultural standards. You have seen it all over in your family - nobody's truly happy. I guess it's more proof that "misery loves company". "Doing it right" does not guarantee happy results. Believe me, I know. I did my own marriage "right" by local cultural standards, and spent 21 years in a marriage that was on life support almost the whole time before it ended in a divorce.

Please remember your parents' lack of support for your marriage years from now, when your own children want to make a life course that would come as a surprise to you. They will appreciate your being there for them.

I wish you all the best, mixed_girl.

[mixed_girl]

Either way, you will not have the complete package of joy that you hope for, since your mother is not pleased with what really makes you happy. You could delay your marriage by a few more months, hoping that she will come around, but that tactic has already failed before. Sad to say, you are not going to get different results if you do the same thing over again.

Hi crazy-meiguoren, I decided to postpone my marriage till the beginning of next year. I am not sure if she is going to come around or not, but at least, the last time we spoke, she wanted that last favor and I am willing to do that last favor for her. I don't have any expectations from her at all. Life is so much easier if we don't have expectations of others people. I don't believe in superstitions at all, but I am a good daughter and I would comply with that last favor. Perhaps, I am making a mistake and perhaps not. I will see that in a few months. But in the end, I will know in my heart that I did everything I could possibly did just for her to join me in this celebration. There will no regrets at all on my part.

Believe me, I know. I did my own marriage "right" by local cultural standards, and spent 21 years in a marriage that was on life support almost the whole time before it ended in a divorce.

Yeah, I agree with you 100%. Marrying in the "right way" doesn't guarantee anything. The question here is not whether two people are marrying the right way, but more whether two people have what it takes to makes a marriage work. That's the key question there.

Please remember your parents' lack of support for your marriage years from now, when your own children want to make a life course that would come as a surprise to you. They will appreciate your being there for them.

I don't think that I am going to forget this. I don't even know if I want to remember this. I guess I see "remembering" as a way to hold a grudge and I don't want to hold grudges at all.

I wish you all the best, mixed_girl

Thank you very much for your words and for taking your time to read my story and respond to it .

-Mixed_girl